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2DOF Frame mover - my compact simulator

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by mirkobastianini, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    :)[/QUOTE]
    Ah, ok...

    PS: Google says another thing about hot leg, and I have faith in Google:
    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...600/isha_chawla_hot_pics_stills_photos_04.JPG
    :grin:grin:grin:grin:grin:grin
    • Funny Funny x 2
  2. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Reverb Gold Contributor

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    There is discussion in other threads here that motor power circuits don't need to have fuses in them since the controller will fault when you exceed its current rating. It's more of a circuit breaker in that regard. I would guess the Sabertooth has that feature but don't know for sure. It would say in the manual if it does, though. If it has that feature then it's up to you on putting fuses in the line too. If you size them bigger than the disconnect current, you will have a failsafe in case of Sabertooth failure however useful that is. If you size them below the disconnect current, you may find yourself popping fuses when you could have kept right on simming had they not popped. Your call.
  3. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    Ok, so I think that If I put fuse like 25A it's a good value... In theory, Power supply can give 47 A, Sabertooth can give 32 A on each line and motors absorbs 12 A on load.. no? With that box I can use 4 fuse, so:

    -One from PSU to Sabertooth;
    -One from Sabertooth to motor;
    -One from Sabertooth to other motor;
    -(maybe, but I don't know if I can put one fuse of 30A) One from my house line (220V AC) to PSU;


    Anyway, somebody can suggest me a good site where I can buy all electronic parts and ships to Europe? I must buy cable, connectors, fuse, emergency switch, ecc
  4. Bastiuscha

    Bastiuscha Active Member

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    @Bernd Manger
    Typical german forum user...now i'm home. (no compliment) :p:)

    @mirkobastianini
    Why delete? Thats not logical! Your questions and whose answers could help other people.
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  5. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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  6. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    Yes, of course I know that I should modify psu like that thread, and tomorrow I will make it. Anyway, I'm trying to understand if it's normal that the green light never come up...now I will make a try with tester to see if there is any voltage on output pins.
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    The mod allows the psu to turn on.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    What you are saying is not what happens to me and is not the same situation of the example you have made. When you connect HP-DPS600, fan starts and power comes to power supply, so I don't think is the same situation describe by you.

    Anyway, please stop to say this things and stop to reply here. If you don't want to read my news, simply unsubscribe to my thread. I'm making a good job with my simulator (I think is little bit better about the average of projects on this forum), so stop to blame me. I'm young, yes, but I'm not stupid.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Technical advice is always welcome, personally directed remarks are not...many members start with no background or knowledge about building a motion sim, myself included, but learn along the way to making their dream project a reality.
    • Agree Agree x 5
  10. Bernd Manger

    Bernd Manger Active Member

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    Sorry to @mirkobastianini and all the others.
    I have gone too far.
    I will delete all my posts in this threat!
    • Like Like x 3
  11. RaceRay

    RaceRay Administrator Staff Member SimAxe Beta Tester

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    @Bernd Manger Please stop playing police and giving counterproductive advices. If you do not want to be helpful please unsubscribe from this thread. Otherwise behave like a guest and be polite. This project thread belongs to @mirkobastianini

    I understand if you have concerns about his work on the PSU with 230V power lines but it would be much more helpful if you give him helpful (safety) advices instead just telling to abandon the project.

    So, now back to topic...
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  12. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Reverb Gold Contributor

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    Hey Mirko,

    You have your emergency stop switch wired in series with your power supply so its current will be flowing through the emergency switch. Does it have a high enough voltage and current rating for line voltage/current? You'll also be running line voltage/current to wherever your emergency switch is located. Most setups I've seen here have the emergency stop using low voltage and in the circuit where your power and secure start switches are located - but I am not familiar with your power supply so can't comment on if those are wired correctly or not.

    I think you need another signal wire on the Sabertooth from the Arduino.

    Three bits about the ammeters - Digital meters may not be appropriate for a motion sim because the numbers will be rapidly changing when it is in motion and probably hard to read. Maybe not, but I bet that will be the case. That's why I went with analog. I'm not trying to actually read the values - just make sure the currents are about the same forward and backward to indicate if the motion part is in proper balance or not. Digital panel meters are integrating meters with a time constant and may miss a lot of the action and if they are fast enough responding, the numbers may be changing too fast to be able to know what the peak currents actually are. Of course, analog meters have indicator needle inertia too. But overall, I wonder about a DPM in this application.

    But also, according to the DPM schematic, you are wiring them incorrectly in your larger schematic. The thing between system power and the load in the DPM schematic is a shunt and is very important and you left those out of your larger schematic. It is a low but calibrated resistance that the load current will flow through and that will create a proportional voltage that the DPM then reads. The DPM is really just a voltmeter and reads a voltage proportional to the current. They don't state the resistance of the shunt but I'd bet with a 0-50A range that it is 40 mOhm if the meter itself is a 0-2V panel meter. That's just a guess since they don't say. But if that's true, at 50 A, you will be shaving 2 volts off the voltage your motors see - most likely about 10 volts from an original nominal 12 volts and that will cut into motor torque.

    >>>>> Edit - I wasn't thinking when I wrote this. It's probably a 0-1.99 volt panel meter but to read directly as amps, it will only be reading 0.50 volts with the decimal lit to make that a 50. If that's true and they aren't using a custom range then the voltage drop at 50 amps is just 0.50 volts - not near as bad - and the shunt resistance would be 0.01 ohms. <<<<<<

    And last about that digital meter, I don't think it is bipolar. I think it only records current flow in one direction but current reverses in these circuits to run the motors each way. That's probably why they show the meter with the blue and black wires and polarity on the power supply and load in their schematic. It's also listed as a 0-50A instead of -50-0-50A or +/-50A meter which also indicates it's not for circuits where the current reverses.
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  13. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    Is this thing wrong?

    This is the Emergency Switch I've ordered: https://www.digikey.it/product-detail/it/apem-inc/A02ESI3B102IX0/679-3758-ND/6007577

    Its rated: 6 A, 240 V (c.a.) and 8 A,24V (c.c.)...maybe do you think it's better to put it on the activation control of Power supply, before the key switch?

    I've followed this schema :)

    wiring.jpg

    I know that I've forget shunt from my schema (piece that I've ordered comes with shunt pre-inserted, so this is why I have not added them to large schema)... thank you for your detailed explanation... anyway this is my ammeter :
    https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/dfrobot/DFR0245-R/1738-1013-ND/6588435

    Maybe...I don't know if I can inserted it on my project...maybe i'm not ready for this :D
  14. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Reverb Gold Contributor

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    @mirkobastianini - you got me thinking about the current thing and my own solution may not work properly but you can change yours slightly to still use one of your meters.

    Just like in the ammeter diagram, if you put a meter between your power supply and the Sabertooth you will still measure current, just not the forward and reverse currents. They will still be there but not differentiated by polarity. You'll see the sum of the absolute currents. That may or may not fit with what you had in mind.

    For my circuit, if I remote sense to compensate for my ammeters, that remote sense has to happen on the far side of my JRKs which means it will be trying to compensate for when the H-bridge is off and running the power supplies to full voltage output every PWM cycle. That's not good and may even be bad. I may either have to live with the voltage drop or forget the ammeters or figure something else out.
  15. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Reverb Gold Contributor

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    I'm not saying it's wrong to put your emergency crop switch in the power line. As long as you do it properly you would be fine. With line voltage, though, you should have it in an enclosure and fully protected. Most that I've seen here use low voltage circuits for the e-stop. You should look at the other build threads.

    About the Arduino to Sabertooth connections, I don't actually know. I don't have Sabertooth circuits or Arduinos to have looked into that. Edit again - it's high level comms so two wires is fine Mirko. I was thinking the Arduino was outputting a PWM signal like it does with MonsterMoto boards but the Sabertooths are smart. Forget what I said about those Arduino to Sabertooth connection not looking right.

    And not trying to discourage. Most anyone should be able to learn this stuff. What I meant was since you seem shaky on the electrical system and since this involves line voltage, it would be good to study up more on electricity and basic wiring or get someone local to you who knows enough to be safe to help you with the wiring. The low voltage side is pretty safe but the high currents available can lead to heating and fires. On the line voltage side, you can get electrocuted. Always better to be on the safe side.
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
  16. gigi

    gigi Active Member

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    The motors are not news but remanufactured. But nice and work perfectly
  17. gigi

    gigi Active Member

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    more ratio mean more torque and low velocity. If you buy the motor with 25:1 and you need more torque you need to use shorter lever. In this case you decrese the velocity and increase the torque. If you use a motor with 50:1 and you need more velocity You must use longer lever. In this case you decrease torque and increase vcelocity. Personally I prefer 50:1 and if I need mor velocity I instal longer lever
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    Little updates to my sim... I need to make plates for hall sensor and after that, I can say that mechanical part is near the end.
    photo_2017-07-20_17-35-03.jpg

    With this kind of connection, I can give to my pedal plate different angles:
    photo_2017-07-20_17-35-10 (2).jpg
    To change size of any part of my sim, I should only screw 4 bolts:
    photo_2017-07-20_17-35-10.jpg

    Inside I can hide all of my electronic connection:
    photo_2017-07-20_17-35-09.jpg

    I have one master key and one led (will be connected to pins of my HP DPS 600, to give consense to start PSU). Regarding 4 buttons, my original idea was to connect them to give separate consense to 4 fans (2 for JRK and 2 for motors)... maybe it's a waste of space to use 4 button for 4 separate fan, so i'm thinking if I can use one button for 2 motor's fan and one button for 2 JRK's fan...but I don't know now what to do with other 2 buttons.
    photo_2017-07-20_17-35-06.jpg

    Here my Alim port with 2 USB ports (for JRK). I must buy other USB port panel. I've bought only one alim port because in my original plans I was think to use one DPS600. Now I want to use 2 JRK, so I need 2 power supply.

    I don't know what I can buy to split signal from power panel and sents it to 2 PSU... I don't think that a Power strip can be inserted inside my simulator.

    photo_2017-07-20_17-35-05.jpg

    With this barrier I can take signal comes from my power supply and send it to JRK, fans and other things
    at the same time. It's rated about 60A, so no problem.
    photo_2017-07-20_17-35-16.jpg
    • Like Like x 2
  19. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    Hi to all,

    Can this schema (very bad :D ) works? I want to give the start to my 2 PSU (HP-DPS600) with only one key.
    try.png

    Thanks to all :D
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  20. mirkobastianini

    mirkobastianini Active Member

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    @Bernd Manger Why you rated optimistic my post?