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Showroom 12v Winch Motor Driving Simpit

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Historiker, Jul 23, 2013.

  1. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    Hi Rob, thanks for chiming in.

    I too had read that and am looking for some type of voltage limiter. Nothing jumps out at me so far but I am still looking.

    I think you left something out of your post though, or I am misunderstanding. Are you recommending the 12v Jrks instead of the 755? The problem that I have with that is my motors are 24v (although they function with 12v).

    Also, I cannot follow the link you posted, I get an error.

    Would the 24v motors function on 12v without losing power or speed? They are 200w motors so at 24v they would pull in 8.3 amps but with 12v they would take twice as many amps (16.6) to do the same task. This is slightly outside the rating for the Jrks but as you mention; with the proper heat dissipation they should function ok at 20-30 amps. My worry would be that on direction changes or fast heavy movement they amp draw would be much greater than even that and I would then ruin 100.00 driver boards rather than 22.00 boards.
  2. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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  3. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Actually spotted an issue.


    Arduino Pin

    VNH5019 Driver Pin

    Basic Function

    Digital 2 M1INA Motor 1 direction input A
    Digital 4 M1INB Motor 1 direction input B
    Digital 6 M1EN/DIAG Motor 1 enable input/fault output
    Digital 7 M2INA Motor 2 direction input A
    Digital 8 M2INB Motor 2 direction input B
    Digital 9 M1PWM Motor 1 speed input
    Digital 10 M2PWM Motor 2 speed input
    Digital 12 M2EN/DIAG Motor 2 enable input/fault output
    Analog 0 M1CS Motor 1 current sense output
    Analog 1 M2CS Motor 2 current sense output

    It requires 2 digital outputs to drive direction.

    Maybe code could be modified to suit, but prilads should work without issues.
    Sorry guys jumped the gun.
  4. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    woh ! many information here ! I'm in a hurry !!!

    This is not a problem : it is like the pinout as Motomonster !
    So my code on x-sim is Okay (for a 2 DOF) http://x-sim.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=943
    if you need this pinout for 4 DOF, I can modify my code in the same way :)

    The shield option is nice for a 2 DOF ! no wirings !!

    12V will give half speed
    ... but it's fine with my Nitec gearmotors (see my tutorial post) !
  5. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Biggest issue running 24v motors on 12v is the stall current needed to stop them increases too and the avail torque is about half too. Me If I was to run 24v I would setup the kangaroo and sabertooth, as the sabertooth motor driver has proven what it can actually handle.
    Matt is there a vid of the 4DOF code actually working.
  6. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi !

    If you use an irreversible gearmotor you dont have the stall current issue ! :)

    a 4DOF bridges arduino code video is planned ! :yes:
  7. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Ah seem a waste though most of the real vibration movement and sudden change of directions, to me would not feel right. Waste of resource to me, sorry.
  8. bsft

    bsft

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    How the heck do you work that out? Every motor can be reversed, its the stall current during thrashing is the key to wild motion.
  9. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    If your worm gear motor has a adequat ratio, it's self locking
    220px-Worm_Gear.gif

    Explanations on Wikipedia here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worm_drive
    Whether a worm and gear will be self-locking depends on the lead angle, the pressure angle, and the coefficient of friction. Simply translated high gear ratio.

    You mean reactivity ?

    I feel that it's correct with the irreversible worm gear motors I have: my nephew is all shook up ! no ?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6ZoxKux5UA

    sorry, I don't understand what you do you mean...
    Irreversible gear motor do not waste energy in just keeping positions !
  10. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Ok I have miss understood from what I gather the definiation was it is a one way motor not reversable. But I m wrong mate full appoligize for that mate. Now clearly understand, yes with a higher ratio gear your possible backlash or freewheeling is kept to a min.

    Bit on the other hand amp draw on reversing action is right this is where all motors peak in amps.
    Even if its stall amps are low, throwing from 100% speed to 0 to 100% in the other direction will cause a considerable amp draw in any motor situation, I don't use wipers as I have found the gearing way too soft for proper sim use. Eventually chew out, if they don't ya not rocking hard enough or racing hard enough, those motors are not going real quick at all in game, profile could be the cause of it. Would like to see it match dirt3 rally motion, need vid looking over the back of the seat onto the screen to show sync of screen vibrations compared to sim movement, my guess you touching about 30 rpm if that, As slow as a 240v machine we are pushing 150rpm and on a 50mm lever recording , teeth chattering speeds.0.1s to go from bottom to top. Beating scn5 speeds.



    On the other hand profile built right would result in a way better ride.
  11. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    Gents, I just wanted to say thank you. With your help I will get this thing moving, just wanted to let you know I appreciate the help.

    Later today I should have pictures of the setup off the table and ready for the electronics.z
  12. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    Here is the pretty much finished assembly. I still need to add a mount for my shifter and another mount to the base for a static tray for the keyboard/mouse but otherwise it is finished.

    I ordered two Pololu 755's today. If I burn them up as well I will bite the bullet, order two winch motors and two Jrks's. :D

    [​IMG]
  13. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    I give up. The Pololu drivers arrived today. All I managed to move was smoke from the inside of my Arduino to the outside.

    So.....

    Which winch motors do you recommend? I will get two of those and two Jrks'
  14. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Any 1000 kg winch will do. I use Arwin TRC9202 (last page of the catalogue).
  15. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    Thanks Value1, I found these; they look the same.



    Dave, how did you set up your heat sink system for the JRK?
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2013
  16. RufusDufus

    RufusDufus Well-Known Member

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    Hey that sim is looking really good!

    I am surprised that the Arduino smoked. That sounds more like a wiring issue or possible a grounding issue? There shouldn't be any need for the Arduino to supply excessive current, that is the reason for having a motor driver module. Make sure you check all your grounds before retesting and best of luck!
  17. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Well , well, winches and popping up again.

    1. Make sure you electrically isolate the internal motor terminals, most winches involved in the automotive industry have capacitors internally from the terminals to the body of the winch motor. These are in place for noise suppression, ie when motor is spinning it stop the interference noise coming through the am/fm stereo ,etc.
    Open the back of the motors carefully and remove these. In turn you can test this. Via:

    (link to test pic to follow) (Hey Dave could you post this I cant find my pic(Since banned from you know where, my photos gone too.)

    2. Ok now to wire the Jrk.

    Jrk Wiring.jpg

    3. Heat Sinking , there are two main chips on the jrk that need a heatsink to run continuously at 20-30amps all day. You will see the two big chips, I used two little heat sinks from my local hobby electrical store. Jaycar.http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=HH8580 bonus thing that they have a heat transfer sticky on them , peel and place. One 120mm 12v fan is good enough to cool both. And is a must. or Jrks might overheat and shutdown, yes they have internal protection for this and other things.

    4. Now an important piece of info, hooking in the feedback pot, this either can be done via levers or as I have found for the style of winch I first used was a RC Heli Gear matched a cog on the winch and a 5 turn pot was perfect for giving me 180 deg on the lever.
    Boat Winch as an Actuator.jpg
    2DOF  - Boat winch - 5 turn pot on RC Heli gear - side on.png
    2DOF  - Boat winch - 5 turn pot on RC Heli gear.png
  18. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    Hi Rob,

    I found one of your old posts earlier tonight and already ordered those gears (before I even ordered the winches and JRKs) ;)

    I have a half dozen 10 turn pots around, can those be used instead?
  19. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    Thanks. The smoke escape was completely my fault. I got frustrated with the non-response that I was getting from the motor drivers that I connected the +v on the logic side to +5 on the arduino thinking that the logic side was not getting any voltage (yes, even though the Pololu website says DONT DO THAT lol :D) I was tired, frustrated and...well...hungry. I should have checked for voltage on those pins. I did something really stupid and got what I deserved ;)

    I found lots of examples of how those drivers a supposed to be connected, I just didnt get any response out of them at all. The logic power is supplied from the motor voltage side on those boards...I shoulda just left well enough alone.

    No worries though. After I get the 2DoF up and running I am going to add a center spring and post as well as a third winch motor and JRK ala Aldoz.
  20. bsft

    bsft

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    Heres the testing motor pic
    As for hooking up heatsink on big chip, I used thermal paste, sat heatsink on top and made sure it cleared capacitors and stuff, and used a bit of araldite on the edge next to wire terminal block and glued the heatsink to that a bit, to keep it steady.
    No I dont have a pic.

    Attached Files: