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My 3 DOF with heave

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Sebastian2, Jan 18, 2024.

  1. Sebastian2

    Sebastian2 Member Gold Contributor

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    I made progress.

    Remember when I wrote, that inverting the axis assignments for roll and pitch didn't have any effect on MSFS? Today it worked. Roll and pitch work as intended now. I must have screwed something up when I tried it last time. There were some... external stressors that might have distracted me.

    I did some flights with the little cessna over New York City and so far the rig seems to be able to carry my weight without getting deformed. Seems like I've stiffened up he right spots.

    The mechanics on one of the motors makes a clacking sound every now and then. Feels like it happens on reversals, which might indicate slack. Its hard to tell whats happening down there when you are sitting up there.
    Also, the motion doesnt feel very smooth. It feels like one or multiple motors move in small increments rather than continously. I need to look into that. 50% Smoothing on all axis didn't help, which should rule out un-smooth input from the game.

    I'll try to look into recording motion and then doing playback. Thus i don't need to sit in the chair but can kneel next to it. This should help locate the source of the clacking sounds and maybe the reason for the choppy motion.
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  2. Attyla.pl

    Attyla.pl Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, Arduino
    Irun Webcam free software to convert phone to webcam for recording, run over WIFI automaticaly :)
  3. Sebastian2

    Sebastian2 Member Gold Contributor

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    I am currently in the process of optimizing the SimTools axis assignments, filters and tuning center settings.

    I started out flying a small single engine Cessna in Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 and optimized everything for casual civilian flying (roll and pitch <20...30 °). I found settings that gave results that are satisfying for me.

    But I also want to do wild stuff with military jets like the F/A18 in MSFS 2020. So i went and changed the settings i found for civilian flying. Roll and Pitch are currently based on roll angle and pitch angle (not roll rate and pitch rate), so i need to use the anti-roll-over filter option.

    However, it doesn't work as expected by me:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PlwZu5xYFxhQnm-yjrZSsoj0w-Gp4mdK/view?usp=sharing

    There is some delay between screen and seat motion, because of the smoothing I applied in order to reduce the violent nature of the motion that happens when i get inverted..

    As you can see, the roll angle of the seat increases while my plane rolls from 0° bank angle to 90° bank angle.
    When I increase the bank angle of the plane further (90 ° to 180 °), the roll angle of the seat starts to decrease.
    As the plane approaches 180° bank angle (almost flies inverted), the seat is almost level again.
    All this makes sense to me.

    But then, when I exceed 180° bank angle, i get thrown around violently. This happens no matter if i do a right or a left hand barrel roll.

    This doesn't seem right to me. I was expecting the rig to smoothly start to lean to the other side when i pass 180 ° bank angle.

    Do you guys have any recommendation on how to fix this?

    Attached Files:

  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    I would suggest disabling every axis except roll, don't use any filters, and tune roll until it works as expected.

    You can likely use a larger Axis Allocation, as in flight sims you are less likely to have all axis maxed out at the same time.

    The larger the Tuning center value the smother the response, over a greater axis range.

    Once roll is sorted do the same for pitch.

    Filters should not be used except for fine tuning once the base motion profile is working as expected and refined as much as it can be.
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  5. Attyla.pl

    Attyla.pl Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Unfortunately in the configuration of SimToools I am not able to help, in my 2DOF motion I use FlyPTmover, but I have in turn a question if you could explain the electronic part of your project. It looks very elegant and safe to use, I am currently using 250W motors but if I wanted to change them to larger ones I would need a hint on the electrical system. Do you perhaps have a wiring diagram ( even a working one).

    Attached Files:

  6. Attyla.pl

    Attyla.pl Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    You can still try the FlyPTmover program , it turns out that it supports 3DOF configuration like yours. I am posting a link to a video of a short flight of an F/A-18 in DCS and when performing a barrel the platform in the preview behaves correctly. I also post my profile for FLyPTmover, of course if you would like to try my profile remove the arms from the frame, the movement limits introduced may not be appropriate.

    Attached Files:

  7. Sebastian2

    Sebastian2 Member Gold Contributor

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    Noorbeast's advice was helpful. I deactivated all DOFs but roll and i found that anti roll over was working as intended. Then I slowly added the other DOFs one by one, always testing in between and was able to overcome all troubles. I think I can get SimTools to work the way I want it to, so I'll stick with it for now.

    I'm still in the process of tuning, though. The F/A18 in MSFS does 140 degree per second roll rate. So after 0,64 seconds i am at 90 degrees bank angle and after 1,28s I am inverted.
    With "Roll" as input and anti roll over activated, throwing the stick to the side will make the rig move to maximum roll angle within said 0,64 s and then back to center within the next 0,64 s. Thats quite a ride. Also, it doesn't feel right when the seat returns back to horizontal while I keep rolling the plane over. I guess anti roll over is not a good option for aerobatics and fighter jet simulation.

    I am currently experimenting with roll rate instead of roll as input. Unlike roll+anti-roll-over, roll-rate doesn't cause a reversal of seat motion while I keep rolling.
    But still it's quite a ride if I throw the stick to the right or left. Everything is cool as long as I do slow input changes, but if I move the stick abruptly, we'll, so will be the movement of the seat. Unfortunately, if the seat moves abruptly, this also leads to abrupt inputs from my arm to the Joystick. I had the situation that I wasn't able to stop the joystick from shaking because the seat (and thusly my arm) was shaking so violently. I had to press emergency shutoff...

    Smoothing, Joystick deadzone, decreased axis range - all those might be solutions to this problem, but they all have serious draw backs.

    @Attyla.pl
    I'll try to come up with a wiring diagram in the next couple of days. Do you have a specific question?
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  8. Sebastian2

    Sebastian2 Member Gold Contributor

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    @Attyla.pl
    Attached you find the wiring diagram you asked for

    Feel free to ask any questions.

    Attached Files:

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  9. Sebastian2

    Sebastian2 Member Gold Contributor

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    I want to make it easier to get in and out of the seat. I found that there is a way to make the rig go to it's lowest position when outside of a game, by using the "Startup - Output" and "Shutdown - Output" options in the Interface Settings of SimTools.

    For both I entered [A<001>][B<001>][C<001>] - see the attached picture, but it doesn't work. Am I missing something?

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 10, 2024 at 18:44