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Question Loosing Electrical power to only 1 of 3 motors

Discussion in 'New users start here - FAQ' started by JDEWizard, Aug 31, 2024.

  1. JDEWizard

    JDEWizard New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
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    Balance:
    130Coins
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    +2 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Hi All,
    I have Build this motion rig about 1 year ago. All has been great ,no issues. I have adjusted at times to fine tune it and all is good!!!

    Last week I had a Bad crash in a Formula car on a high speed track. my rigg tripped out. I reset it and all was good for the remain of the night.
    The next night I had to replace a fuse on my left motor. shortly after I started Practice.
    the 3rd night the right motor dropped out. I reset it and was back up, for about 10 minutes.
    Now it will load all motors, but as soon at I start a event I loose the right motor.
    my parts:
    BTS7960 43A H-Bridge High Power Motor Driver Module
    Arduino Uno REV3
    Jazzy Wheelchair Gearboxes Motors 24 volt


    I used a power units 110 to 24 volt.
    Picture of the rigg and the lay out below.

    ok, I have readjusted smc3 as you would do at the start of setup ( "0" the start of install and increased)
    OH!! if it does not have a driver in the seat ( load ) it will run until you stop it.
    I Replace the drive module one for the right front motor. (note the other two motors work fine)
    check all the connections
    Replaced the Ardunio
    upgraded the terimal block for the Ardunio
    Swapped the motor wires from the right motor to the left motor. (it did the same thing ,dropout)
    Swapped out the pot sensors no difference.
    swapped wiring fron the ardunio to the drivers ,no difference.
    checked voltage when the motor is working I have volts on both side In & Out. when it quits, I loose volt on the output side.
    Check amps to see what the right motor was drawing . it was near to what the other two was drawing until it drops out.
    I am not sure where to go next.
    does anybody have any suggestion?

    Thanks

    Attached Files:

  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Balance:
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    Ratings:
    +11,018 / 55 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    When it drops out is it tripping the PSU, is there any visual or audio warnings, and if you move the control board from the one dropping out to another motor does the issue follow?
  3. JDEWizard

    JDEWizard New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
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    Balance:
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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    No, the psu stay powered up. the fuse is not blown.
    the other motors work fine after the one motor drops out.

    thanks for your reply
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
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    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    150,686Coins
    Ratings:
    +11,018 / 55 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Move the offending control board from the motor dropping out to another motor and check if the issue follows.
  5. JDEWizard

    JDEWizard New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
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    Balance:
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    +2 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino

    yes, it will drop out with another motor also.
    let me clearify
    I move the wiring from the bad circuit to another motor. there was the same problem.
    I also move the wiring from one motor drive to another one same problem.
    It is strange that it will work ok with out a load but ,when you set in the seat the motor will fall out with the load.

    thanks
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2024
  6. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    150,686Coins
    Ratings:
    +11,018 / 55 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Sounds like a damaged IBt2.
  7. JDEWizard

    JDEWizard New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Balance:
    130Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    I Have replace IBT2. with a new one at the start of this issue.
    I have also replaced the Arduino .

    Question, even though it shows the motor to be good , could a motor have a draw issue that causes the arduino to shut down that circuit ?

    I have change out new :
    the IBT2 twice now
    the adruino

    I have swap around
    motor wiring
    pot sensors
    wiring from the arduino to the motor drivers

    what else could it be?

    Thanks
  8. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
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    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    150,686Coins
    Ratings:
    +11,018 / 55 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    What voltage are you running the IBT2s at?
  9. JDEWizard

    JDEWizard New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino

    24 volts
  10. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Balance:
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    Ratings:
    +11,018 / 55 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Despite the specs other members have reported similar types of recurrent damage running IBT2s at 24v, dropping it a little seems to assist with longevity.
  11. JDEWizard

    JDEWizard New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
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    Balance:
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    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino

    Is there another motor drive that would be a better replacement?
    I did see a Thread on driver upgrades. I am not sure which would be better?

    Thanks for the help!
  12. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    150,686Coins
    Ratings:
    +11,018 / 55 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
  13. JDEWizard

    JDEWizard New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    22
    Balance:
    130Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino

    Thanks for your help !!
    I will send you reply to what I find to fix the problem.
    I will try the voltage reduction first.

    Thanks agian
    • Like Like x 1
  14. JDEWizard

    JDEWizard New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
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    Balance:
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    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Good Day,
    update ,
    I did try lowering the voltage to 20. v.
    had the same issue.

    So I have decided to replace all 3 2bt drivers , the ardunio, and wiring from motor to control unit.
    all the connecters.
    just got it up and running. started all my setting at "0" and slowly increase them till they started moving.
    went to the Sims Tool and adjusted the setting there .
    all worked good.
    Then I got into the seat of the rig.
    started testing each motor again .
    my left motor tripped out when I went down motion .
    so I tried the right motor it did the same thing.
    the 10 amp fuses are good.
    I will send you the setting I am At in the SMC3.
    I am still at 20 volts.
    it almost like it is tripping cause of load. I have not changed anything on the rig .
    It has being running great for a Year.
    ???

    Thanks for any help!!!

    Attached Files:

  15. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    150,686Coins
    Ratings:
    +11,018 / 55 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Try Fpwm at 25.

    If it is the same motor check its bushes for wear.

    How well balanced is your rig with you in it and all peripherals attached?

    What range of lever movement do you have? Anything over about 38-40 degrees up and down introduce torque inefficiency and unnecessary strain on the motors.
  16. JDEWizard

    JDEWizard New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2023
    Messages:
    22
    Balance:
    130Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Thanks for the reply,

    It is 2 motors . and I did remove one of the brushes last week and check it. is appears to be good.
    my Fpwm is at 35, ok I Will try at 25.
    Depending on the location of the seat I am between 45 - 55 % so I am close. I did try moving my seat to get closer to the 50%. but it still did the same thing.
    The range is closer to 50 degrees at full range. but operation is around 45 degree. and one other thing. The length of the lever is just under 3. in long.
    In the SMC3 setup in manual motion it will drop out before I even get 35 degrees on one motor (coming down) and 40 degree on the other (going up.)

    I will try changing the Fpwm to 25 First.
    I have a spare motor gear box assy, but it is for Traction Loss motor ( wrong orientation). I was thinking of swapping the motor section and see it that fixes one of the motors.

    I will update you after.

    Thanks for the information!!!
  17. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    21,511
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    150,686Coins
    Ratings:
    +11,018 / 55 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Looking forward to updates.

    It is important that the rig is correctly balanced: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...-of-gravity-to-balance-a-motion-simulator.55/

    There may be other other contributing factors but 45 - 55% is not helping, physics dictates that effective torque utilisation degrades significantly over about 38-40 degrees up and down lever range.
  18. JDEWizard

    JDEWizard New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Balance:
    130Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Thanks for the information,

    I swap out the new spare motor to one in the bad circuits.
    It works as it was before the issue.
    Being I did not have another spare motor, I swapped out the traction loss motor to the other bad circuit.
    Unfortunately it is doing the same thing as the old one.
    I retested the new motor and it work great no issues at all.
    It is very hard to believe all 3 motors failed at the time.
    I am going to try to find some new motor assy. and replace the other bad one.
    I disassembled the old motor and find that the brush area on the armature as an area that was dark.
    like it was burnt or over heated. this may have been the issue , but not sure?

    Question
    How do you limit the lever movement range?
    I know that you can in the simstool. but is there any were else?

    I do appreciate all in help and information!!!!!:)
  19. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    21,511
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    150,686Coins
    Ratings:
    +11,018 / 55 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    See the SMC guide re settings: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...3dof-motor-driver-and-windows-utilities.4957/

    Clip Input Used to create a band at either limit of the target range beyond which any values sent to the SMC3 are clipped. In addition to this clipping, if the motor feedback does move beyond this range (typically through inertia), the SMC3 will attempt to brake the motors hard by driving them in reverse until they are back out of this limit zone. The value can be anything from 0-255 (however can’t be less than the current limit setting). Reverse braking is applied in the band between the Clip Input and the Max Limit settings. Reverse braking can be disabled - refer to PWMrev.

    Max Limits Used to create a band at either limit of the feedback range beyond which if the motors move (typically through inertia) the SMC3 will automatically shutdown the drivers and keep them disabled until reset. This is essentially a safety mechanism if something goes wrong. The value can be between 0-255 (however can’t be greater than the current clip setting).

    [​IMG]