Yogi's flightbase

Hi,
my static EC-120 flight-sim shall transform now to a base in motion.

Some information about me:
During mechanical engineering studies in the 1980's I started learning and development of CAD and joined to the engineering bureau of my dad. Together we made many different prototype machines for other factories.
Since I had always developed the CAD software for our office, I came to a trade fair company in the early 1990s to develop aid programs for trade fair planning.
In 2005, I started to develop tuning parts for model helicopters. In 2010, our first 3D printer came to the office, with which we then produced scale add-on parts.
At the end of 2014, a model mate wanted to have parts for his XPlane Simulator. That was the start of our replicas for helicopter controls.
Of course I also had to build a cockpit to test them.
And the journey started.....

This is my base which I used with beamer and a 3m screen right in front the cockpit nose. Now I use a Oculus rift.
And now the desire of converting it into a motion system grows.

Hi,
before starting the design process I try to evaluate the different stages of realism.
First I have to decide what deflection my platform should make.
I am not the youngest and I am not a coaster fan. But without motion hard flying in the static pit made me sick too. The 8 vibration units in my seat reduced it significant.

At moment I think that the system should be at least a 3DOF with pitch, roll and heave.
Therefor I need 3 axles with enough force to move the platform.
For a complete 6DOF, the single forces can be lower, but I need 6 units.
Some time, I also thought of the fluid muscles from FESTO, but this is too costly , as anyone could copy it. And it would make to less movement inside their specs .

For a "standard" system would be the decision between linear actuator and wormgear-DC drive with lever.

Hi,
and this should be moved:


plus some "too heavy" pilots, so the base should be able to move between 200 and 250 kg with adequate dynamic.

Hi,

some decisions are made.
First version will go 3DOF.
I will design my own linear actuator.

• lift force 2000 N
  
• speed 100 mm/s and more
• total movement 500mm
• driven by closed loop NEMA 23 3Nm at 50V (round about 370W)
• driven spindle nut, not the ballscrew spindle 20x5. This will only moving linear (less vibrations and less bearings)

The moving base should reach in this state of planing:

• +/- 20° pitch
• +/- 20° roll
• +/- 100 mm heave
• Speed 100mm/s at an estimated weight of max 300kg.

grey version shows the leveled flight. The colored are 20° pitch + 20° roll.
The angles seems to be really big.

BTW: I tried to find something similar in your FAQ, and in the motor and hardware section. I read nearly every thread back to 2009. Why are there so much threads that have no active pictures in it (dead links inside this forum) and why are so many threads stopping after only 1 reply, but no answer? That is really frustrating The most frustrating threads signed to a thread where I came from 2 or 3 posts earlier. (But perhaps that could be a joke I do not understand)
Some interesting looking threads sign unfortunately to threads which seems to be deleted, and showed only 404.
I try to be not so frustrated and hope that I can perform this thread to a functioning moving base.

Hi noorbeast,

yes, I used the FAQ, and yes all link pointed to the same thread. And yes, this thread was found through the search too.
And yes, even the google search pointed to the same thread, because this link seems to pop up in every thread someone search information about linear actuators.
That's like driving a carousel, but you don't really find any new information.
But I will try to give technical information for my design, so others can use them for variants or simple rebuilds.
And I try to keep parts as simple as possible.

Hi noorbeast,

have you taken a look to the 4. link you show?
1 round more.

But this will be a thread for my motion base. And I promise that no information will deleted here.

how shall I explain: if the link shown in the FAQ drives you direct to a link that says: take a look in the FAQ, this seems to be without any sense for me.
And that should be all to this theme, please.

Interest for a flightbase does not seem to exist here. (no hints, no comments)
And I do not want to have a monologue about this here.
So I will probably continue this thread only when I come across software problems.

Hi @yogi149 . Were you actually after any hints/comments? - your thread looked to me to be just a log of your design decisions which can be very subjective when it comes to simulators due to mainly available funds/requirements. Nothing wrong with that, but it may not be that conductive for starting a conversation.

Hi SeatTime,

yes, sure I need the opinions from other.
But as I wrote, I tried to find some information in this forum, but if the only answer is: use FAQ there is everthing descripted. And in the FAQ 4 links where 3 of them always return to: ask the FAQ.
The only 1 link that seems to be interesting, was yours, but it lead only to 404.
It took me 2 days to read the most of the available actuator threads, but the most were crosslinked to FAQ or died without information. (yes, noorbeast, these were user decisions)

Or I am to stupid for asking the right question to get information.
I could not find any information about the restrictions that can be useful for a flight-base.
What angles would be satisfying without using a bucket?
What speed should be necessary? I understand that car simulators use high speed, short stroke actuator for simulating high frequency impacts from the road.
What force should the actuator generate?
Why was it not possible for me to find information about stepper driven actuator? If nobody uses them why not?
As example: my CNC mill uses stepper drive and reach 10m/min with a portal weight of over 70kg, hard stops move the whole mill (>200kg) over the substructure.
And I found closed loop stepper drive, that reach the necessary torque for the screwball actuator for around 100,-€ (shipping to germany incl.).
The needed torque can be calculated with simple excel sheets, when the boundary conditions are set.

As I design and engineer mechanical parts since over 30 year now, perhaps my way to reach is different from others, but I always try to use parts that are available or producible with not too high cost.

Or I am to stupid for asking the right question to get information. There are no stupid question, but you do need to actually ask them - not just comment about the search or FAQ. Remember this a community driven site - it is what it is .
I could not find any information about the restrictions that can be useful for a flight-base. There are no restrictions - just the usual time, money, resources, knowledge, etc .
What angles would be satisfying without using a bucket? As much as you can get, but what do you need? - you don't have to use all of it, all the time. For my sim, I keep the movement short and sharp for cars, but long for Aircraft, rollercoasters etc If you don't have it available - you cannot use it. Note: 'the bucket' is used for a reason as simtools has no 6DOF math. Ideally for aircraft you would want a 360 degree capable sim - but then other factors/limitation step in that I have already talked about .
What speed should be necessary? I understand that car simulators use high speed, short stroke actuator for simulating high frequency impacts from the road. Once again - as much as you can afford/need. Nothing wrong with using long stroke actuators they just normally cost more and take up more space.
What force should the actuator generate? A good actuator should faithfully track the data being sent to it. Cost normally controls this.
Why was it not possible for me to find information about stepper driven actuator? If nobody uses them why not? SCNs are stepper motor based and very popular - but the noise is not to everyones taste. DIY - Likely other risks in sizing the right stepper for the task (speed spread/torque) - nothing stopping you from trying - if you have the time/money etc. I went through 4 different DC motors until I got one I liked in building my actuators. Unfortunately in building a simulator there is no one straight answer, as there are so many variables.

If this is not a joke, what kind of humor is it.
I have done what noorbeast first answer to my welcome thread was
https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...mber-introduce-here.1737/page-203#post-153702
after nearly 2 days of looking for information, I decided to go my way (because it seems, that nobody done that before) and made the remark, that for me the FAQ was nearly useless, and we are only talking about that.

Now I asked some questions, but the answer is: make as much as possible.
But my possibilities are not what I have ask for.

I ask for known restrictions, a heli-flight-base should have.
Even professional simulators for commercial pilots seems not be make more than +/-20° in all directions.
I didn't found any published professional 360° Simulator.
For jet-fighter gamers with money and place I saw them since many years.
And believe me, if I want a 360° Simulator, I would be able to build one.

My goal for this base is: a payable base that everybody with normal skills could rebuild .
And not so noisy like the most worm-geared lever actuated motion-seats I found until now.
My base will be placed next our living room, where normal live should not be disturbed, so noise is not an option. If it makes to much noise, there will be no way to use it.

But without discussion here (and not about the FAQ) I will only show my results and not the way to it.

It was no joke??? Just trying to help and answer your question .
I think there is a big 'English is not my first language' issue here. So I will leave it be. Good luck in building your sim.

Hi SeatTime,

you can stay, I leave.
And I do not think that the language is any problem.
And the joke was not your answer, I meant the FAQ carousel. But if you like it, you can use it.
As noorbeast wrote: I will use google.

But can you help me at least where your "helpfull" answer hides?
Make as big and fast as you can?
I accept that you wanted to help, but your answer makes no sense for me.
As I wrote, I can make much more as I consider useful. And I ask for useful restrictions.

Again my goal: a flight base, no coaster or car simulator.
But flight base seems not to be part of this community, and that's why I'll look elsewhere.
Perhaps I will return for software and app problems.

But this thread is closed now for me .