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X-SIM 360° 2DOF Motion Flight Pit with Arduino for DCS World

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by apointner, Aug 12, 2015.

  1. apointner

    apointner Siddhartha

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    N 48° 9'0.88" E 12° 5'45.84"
    Balance:
    452Coins
    Ratings:
    +23 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Now the Pit works with 80kg load, rollrate 220°/sec and Virtual Reality!
    Thanks to the Motion Cancelling Tool "OpenVR Input" from Maxman666,
    VR tracking and alignment works like a charme with the HTC Vive , VivePro and Valve Index.
    Sorry for long winded videos.

    Carrier launch and some Aerobatics with VR in DCS World:


    Some little dogfight:


    Customer riding the Simulator (funny screams):
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EuEQIgN5V6ZDv2TSNpF5A5mr8iqRAGF3

    Load Test@max. rates:
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1s9OoqvJWwiKuEEMixN1P1uivdavmAdEm

    And here old vid with only one Axis 360°:

    NOP first time with VR Headset (Visitor flight via Track Replay)
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2LQi0fzxwCVX2cyRlZlU1pkQkE

    Aerobatics Fun (Motion Controller works now quit fast and precise)
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jzeZsW1qy898aj_rVnwkFOrndVw0XfjM

    Airrace firsttime max. roll rate.
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2LQi0fzxwCVQkxGOTNiX25fVWM

    Nevada NOP first 360° but huge delay, not precise.
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2LQi0fzxwCVRndNQWdkanZhZ0k

    Pitch Axis works now
    https://adobe.ly/2IvvvMG

    First Vid of Belt-tension System (WIP)
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EjWV2XVJd15zkLaol0C9RC04WvdRZoSp

    I'm flying in DCS World mostly together with a Virtual Wing (vJaBoG32).

    Background: Why 360° Motion Sim?
    It may look like but this Monster is not a funny roller coaster [​IMG]
    The main goal is to reach a perfect Situation Awarness (SA) for mill. Missions.
    E.g. if you are doing Bombruns, Night OPs, Dogfights or Aerobatics it´s very easy to get disorientated.
    In a real Airplane you have many little helps to stay orientated (and sometime to get disorientated also)
    In a PC-Simulation you don´t have these helps, but i want to have them!
    And this is the reason for 360° 3DOF - you simply feel you´re flying inverted - even if you are in fog hole!
    However this is not realistic...in a real Fighterjet you mostly have positive Gs (heave or Z Axis).
    Everythings else like Yaw, Sway, Surge forces are tiny effects in relation to the huge positive Gs (assumed your are doing millitary or aerobatic flights).
    Since nearly no one can simulate constant Heave, I go for the 360° option.
    Thougt i was very surprised how realistic the 3DOF feels - in VR a constant pitch Up feels like +2.5G and a sudden pitch down almost feels like Zero G.
    But a 70° to 120° Rollangle (levelflight) dosn´t feel realistic at all , cause it feels like a 1G sideslip.
    Therefor i builded a seatbelt fastener to simulate heave (constant G pos).
    And this works very good! Although only the belt buckle is tightened by a cable, the pressure is distributed very cleanly on shoulders, chest, thighs and pelvis.
    You can hardly feel that in reality a pull in the middle is the source of the Gs.
    Each G is clearly noticeable. At max. Gs i almost lose the air, although the objective pressure on the body is only a fraction of the real Gs.
    In a 4G loop there is enough pressure (on the butt) to provide the feeling of positive Gs.

    But why not a 6DOF MotionSim?
    Even a Stewart hexa can´t do constant rolls, loops, Pitch Ups, invert, or just stay in the correct bank angle.
    Particularly with VR you feel every false Degree between Real Life Angles and InGame Angles.
    OnSet cuing dosn´t work good for me and brakes immersion and SA to me at least.
    However i use the Pitch and Roll Axis to simulate certain g-forces like slip and horizontal velocity.
    Example:
    On a Carrier Launch the Jetpilot feels +0.9 G velocity. I can simulate this 1:1 via pitch up with ~80°.
    Same thing with Carrier Landings: 2.6G decelerate...ok i can only simulate -1G deceleration with pitch down 90°.
    Both things a scary and exhausting even with just 1G!

    And this is maybe the most important part why 360°
    It is scary like RL flying! My first real life loop scared me in the same way this simulator did !
    Not to mention how scary LowLevel Flight suddenly becomes - same like real even if Gs are far away!
    But having a blast when going vertical and doing a Split-S? You bet!
    Actually I do (or do not) make the same mistakes both in the simulator and real life, so this biest is a great teacher to me.
    But in the End of the Day it is exhausting - this simulator gives you a small clue what real fighterpilots must accomplish.
    With motion On i will never win a MP Dogfight again [​IMG] !
    So this is nothing i you could ever get with 6DOF hexa sim...even a flight in a Level D motion simulator with very steep maneuvers couldn't convince me.
    Also pure VR is not enough, because VR is only optically like reality.
    But the Airplane movements, position and G-force causing all the thrille and panic and immersion - not the view.
    This is also confirmed by the Sim-guests:
    As soon as turbulences, shear winds, steep roll- / pitch angles or stalls appear, even experienced VR Pilots are completely
    surprised and scared while experience this in my motion cockpit!

    Some Datas:
    The Pit-Basket (Rollaxis: weight: 160kg + 100kg me), Pitch Axis (90kg) and Mainframe (120kg).
    Material is steel 40x40x4mm, Round tube 140mm/4mm. Size is now 240cm x 220x 250cm
    No Chance to do this width Polulu JRK.
    Some shooping list:
    - 3x Arduino Uno R3
    https://store.arduino.cc/arduino-uno-rev3

    - 2x Hallsensor (Poti 360° endless)
    https://www.megatron.de/produkte/we...halleffekt-absolutwertgeber-serie-mab25a.html

    - 2x Sabertooth 2x60 + 1x Sabertooth 2x15
    https://www.dimensionengineering.com/products/sabertooth2x60

    - 4x cheap 12V / 35AH Car Batterie in parallel for 2x 24V Power source + 2x 12V 2AH for Belt Tension

    - 1x 24V 350W 300rpm DC Brushed DC Motor for the Belt-Tension System
    https://www.ebay.de/itm/DC-Getriebemotor-MY1016Z-350W-24V-36V-10-8Nm-330U-min-mit-Fuß-Ritzel-1-2-9Zäh/311748019051?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=610631562942&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

    Roll Axis:
    https://www.transtecno.com/en-en/ge.../12v-24v-dc/helical-bevel-dc-gear-motor-ecmb/
    1x Gearbox ECMG 600/02 2 U 29.93 D25 240 T1
    1x Actuator: EC 600.240 800WS2 3000rpm 24V 71 B14 (strongest available)
    Actuator input flange: 71B14
    Rated 60A and 120Nm (peak ~ 250Nm) with max. 65 RPM under load. 24V DC / 800W rated (peak ~2400W)


    Pitch Axis:
    https://www.transtecno.com/en-en/ge...v-24v-dc/helical-in-line-dc-gear-motors-ecmg/
    1x Gearbox CMB 633 U 47.16 D25 71 B14 M1
    1x Actuator: EC 600.240 800WS2 3000rpm 24V 71 B14 (strongest available)
    Actuator input flange: 71B14
    Attention! I connected the Gearbox with a chain drive to the Pitchaxis, ratio 1:2 (so halfes rpm)

    For order contact:
    giulia.tugnoli@intecno-srl.com..
    You have to run a (small) business or they won´t deliver.

    Attention!
    Actuators may not fit for your sim. Much depending on centre of gravity, Power source, H-Bridge, Basketweight, Pilots weight, Chains and so on.
    You have to calculate the needed Nm for each axis. Then look at the tables from transtecno and look for this Nm value.
    Now you know ratio and the rpm with load. If rpm is to low, just choose gearbox with higher rpm (max. +20%).
    This will work because the DC Actuators can be overdriven by 100% PWR. However the gearbox will suffer a little bit.
    Don´t choose wormgear drives! They are selflooking. This will cause stutters, jitters and finally break the drive shaft.


    Turnrates:
    A rated 800W DC Brushed Accurator is enough for Flight Simulation, cause you can squeeze out 2600W peak without damage.
    You will get accelerations up 200°/sec with a 100kg heavy Pit + 90kg Pilot.
    A real strong gearbox with the correct ratio (75 rpm with 250Nm are perfect) is important to get this values and to stand the stress e.g. full stops or hard dogfights!

    More Power is not possible due the H-Bridge. Even the Saabertooth can not pull more the 90A @24V for a sec. So i can´t feed more PWR to the Accurator.

    Another important thing is centre of gravity. All my Axis are near perfect balanced (on my weight), which was...let´s say just luck :)
    This makes the hole system very responsive, fine and saves a lot of energy!

    Runtime:
    I can fly for 10h continuously with 4x 35ah Batteries.
    When you are unable to mechanical balance your Axis, i would even recommend to add weight to sort this out!
    This makes everything so much easier with the PID Controller.

    Some Frame specs:
    Pitch Axis shaft drive: d=80mm ; t=10mm; l=1200mm
    Roll Axis shaft drive: d=60mm ; t=20mm; l= 300mm
    Gears- and Accurators shaft drive: d=25mm (minimum!)
    Pitch Axis frame round tube: d=140mm ; t=4mm (minimum!)
    Main- and Roll Axis frame L-Profil: 40mm x 40mm x 4mm (better would be 30x30x4mm square profil!)

    I use a big double chain for the Pitch axis. It is much easyer to assamble and to get the perfect gear ratio.
    Also it is safer, sturdy and your gear box has less stress. The little more weight dosn´t really matter.

    For the roll axis i use a direct drive axis through the gearbos. This reduce weight, latency, adds stiffnes, but ratio can´t be changed.

    The Pitch axis has a one side bearing (U-Frame). This reduce roomspace but adds much weight and is not easy to build...ok and it looks just better *g.



    Signal Concept / Game Value Export:
    Thanks to leonpro who made the DCS profile for x-sim
    The data extracting and input setup working very fine!
    As far as i know THIS is the ONLY Solution that works at the moment!
    I tryed the other simulation software, but they don´t support 360°, at least not with H-Bridges.
    Also BFF Simulation doas not support.
    I tryed the kangaroo motion controller...also no 360°Option with absolute Hallsensor!
    However this is not a perfect solution:
    - PID Controller is buggy and very difficult to setup
    - There are runaways, stutters and delays in some flight conditions

    From DCS via export.lua to Import-Plugin:
    http://www.x-sim.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=309
    From there to X-SIM Math / USO Setup.
    Then installing Sirnonames XPID Firmeware for Arduino Uno / Sabertooth:
    http://www.x-sim.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=723
    From Arduino to h-Bridge Sabertooth 2x60 and
    to DC brushed Motor.
    Feedback via Hallsensor:
    http://www.megatron.de/produkte/hal...halleffekt-absolutwertgeber-serie-mab25a.html

    I use this values to get the Bank rate out of DCS:

    local pitch, bank, yaw = LoGetADIPitchBankYaw()
    local vel = LoGetVerticalVelocity()

    Stearing:
    You will need a real good Flighstick to enjoy the motion. So my Warthog Thrustmaster is extended (35cm) and is now damped by adjustable motorcycle handlebar dampers...very nice feeling, soft as butter and still a lot of resistance, much closer to reality, ideal for rotorheads, I can only recommend (thx to Bergison for the ingenious idea). With a strong damper setting you also have a trim system!
    However, there is no Centerforce anymore! This is not a issue to me, but other will. Therefore you may add Springs on the dampers to gain centerforce again.


    Important Funstuff:
    IBEAM Bodyshaker + Subwoofer + Surround Sound System. Very important for the immersion e.g. Gau8, TouchDown, Stalls/Buffets.
    Headsets, even the best, won´t work because you need huge amplitudes to get realistic kicks and vibrations. But a Headset is still important for radio com. .
    Air Condition: I use a cheap own from China with 3000W heating and 180W cooling. This is enough to simulate some climate (e.g. Startup in Nevada or High Altitude Flight in a P-51). However the Air condition is manually remote controlled, maybe some day i read out DCS Temperature to get proper control [​IMG]



    VR with Motion
    Basically all VR glasses track absolute. I.e. if your plane rolls with 45°, then the 45° real cockpit angles add up with the 45° angles of the InGame View.
    So optical it looks as if you are flying at a 90° angle. This leads to motion sickness instant. But there is a solution called motion cancelling:
    https://github.com/matzman666/OpenVR-InputEmulator
    This App simply subtract the e.g. 45° RL angle again. Motion cancelling works only with the HTC Vive and Valve Index (NOT with Pimax at the moment).
    For a perfect 2x 360° tracking you need 3 Lighthouse Stations (type 2). When little blackouts are ok, while doing a loop or roll, you can go with two Lighthouse Stations (type 1).

    Pitch Problem:
    If you pitch up the Aircraft in DCS for 90° the Bankaxis flips suddenly to 180° and afterwards the Pitch Axis is inverted.
    This is the same behavior as the artificial horizont instrument in the aircraft doas.

    Heads UP Pilots!
    With this Export.lua for DCS World you can counter this Effekt!
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Z7dsOeoYY-YIdQwM_rvT5oEkotDJPCys

    You can make forward / backward / inverted loops as you like,
    For example, you can cancel the climb at 80° PitchUp,
    You can even roll a bit at 90° pitch,
    You can go up to 4 degrees off the track through the vertical.
    If you don´t hit vertical the "normal" Bankflip occours and Pitch will decrease as "normal".
    Some rare miss behaviors and small stutters are still a issue, but you know...

    Have Fun!


    Safety and security

    With 360°, 200kg Basket and 230V AC even small mistakes can end deadly.
    - So include a separate, super sensitive FI switch directly in front of the rotary grinder between the main power line.
    I have not experienced any unwanted offs or voltage fluctuations so far.
    At this time i try to supply my PC with a 12VDC
    https://www.minipc.de/de/catalog/il/919
    So if this works i don´t need the deadly 230V AC!

    - Use ONLY tested rotary unions that are really designed for 230V (up to 700V peak)!
    An extremely fast fuse + FI switch is important.

    - Emergency stop switch: To switch off the 24V current I built a power relay between the actuator and the battery. From the pit a 12V control signal goes over two signal lines to the relays. If the control signal is cut by the stop switch, the power relays disconnect the 24V load current.

    - Roll bar and basket: Worst case would be if an axle, bearing or drive mount breaks while your flying invertet. So install a stable basket which protects your head from any impact!

    - Heavy duty anchor: I have installed 12 of them in the floor and walls to keep the Simulator in place.

    - Emergency brake system: Via wireless con. and a self-sufficient battery I control two 25mm bolts on a linear motor, which drill into the walls
    and frames. This stops any movement. Why wireless? How do you want to release the brake if the axle or signal cable tears apart?

    - Helmet, 5 point seat-belt and alarm button are mandatory. Installing HTC Vive in a pilot's helmet works just as well!
    - Emergency lighting is really good in case of AC Power loose.

    - Don't use more then max. 3kW actuator. Or at least make very sure that the motor don't get more power then 3000W peak. Why?
    2000W brake your bones, but you will survive likely. But at 5000W everthing is just ripped apart instantly.

    Attached Files:

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    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
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    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
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    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    101,079Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,430 / 41 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
  3. apointner

    apointner Siddhartha

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    N 48° 9'0.88" E 12° 5'45.84"
    Balance:
    452Coins
    Ratings:
    +23 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Thanks a lot! But it seems that dontcarefilmer didn´t manage to get a full 360° with LFS :(
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
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    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    101,079Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,430 / 41 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Not 360° with LFS but as I read the code notes it allows for positions 0-360 degrees, so well worth a try with a flight sim like DCS, FSX or P3D.
  5. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2015
  6. apointner

    apointner Siddhartha

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    N 48° 9'0.88" E 12° 5'45.84"
    Balance:
    452Coins
    Ratings:
    +23 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Thanks a lot! I contacted him, but he didn´t build a 360° SimPit :(
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
  7. dance77

    dance77 New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, SCN6
    good flight sim!!
    thank you!
  8. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    maybe this could help?
  9. mgill4bu

    mgill4bu Member

    Joined:
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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, JRK, Joyrider
    How do you like using the sabertooth for the controller? Any pros or cons?
  10. apointner

    apointner Siddhartha

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    N 48° 9'0.88" E 12° 5'45.84"
    Balance:
    452Coins
    Ratings:
    +23 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Sabertooth 2x60 is really great. Handle 190A on 12VDC for 1 second! If current is such high for longer, the controller just throttle down for a few seconds, that´s it. You can not overheat or overpower the Controller and the Options in the DEscripte Software tool is just amazing esp. with the Kangaroo motion controller (but no 360° endless option with kangaroo!). Also the support is good. This thing just works - whatever! But it´s expensive. And more then 900W eff. output, you won´t squeeze out - not even with 24VDC.
  11. apointner

    apointner Siddhartha

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    N 48° 9'0.88" E 12° 5'45.84"
    Balance:
    452Coins
    Ratings:
    +23 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Pitch Problem sloved!
    In DCS when you pitch up the Aircraft 90° the Bankaxis flips suddenly to 180° and the Pitch Axis moves inveted over 90°.
    This is the same behavior as the artificial horizont instrument in the aircraft doas.

    With this Export.lua for DCS World you can counter this Effekt!
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aEOug ... -S1ZP7Obx0

    You can make forward / backward / inverted loops as you like,
    For example, you can cancel the climb at 80° PitchUp,
    You can even roll up at 90° pitch,
    You can go up to 5 degrees off the track through the vertical,
    Some small stutters and jumps are still there, but i hope "someone" solves this :)

    And it works! Have Fun!
  12. ferslash

    ferslash Active Member

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    woooooow
    just for curiosity, this building is out of my reach but... how much did you spend?
  13. apointner

    apointner Siddhartha

    Joined:
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    80
    Location:
    N 48° 9'0.88" E 12° 5'45.84"
    Balance:
    452Coins
    Ratings:
    +23 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Ah uhh don´t talk about that *g - count with 10k only without working hours and machine costs.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019