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Wish to ask about potential meters and how to diy rig

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by boons4, Jun 15, 2012.

  1. boons4

    boons4 New Member

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    Dear All,
    Pardon me for my newbie questions. Though I dont see myself be able to acquire the skills of building my own diy motion rig for fantastic Iracing SIM, I still hope to learn more on following questions. If you all can advise me it would be great. Thanks.

    1) I always see for 2dof, worm gear drive dc 15V motors used in simple Chair mover rig, it is mentioned that potential meter 1 pot is used. I hope to ask how exactly is the 1 pot potential meter used in the setup? What is the purpose of the potential meter in this case? I do know how potential meters work in my G27 pedals though. As i always thought the Polulu controller would send signal to the motors to control the dc motor movement. Thanks.

    2) For the above simple setup, lets say we use the Polulu 12JV thingy to control, is there any soldering works needed in Polulu or simply a true plug n play of 5-8 cables?

    3) From the 20 pages of DIY project threads I read, it seems that 70% of the guys here would use the actuators/dc motors angled behind seat method(Simexperience method), rather than adopting the dc motor beneath seat method(Joyrider config). What are the pros of 1st method vs Joyrider method? I am very keen on the joyrider method because it looks super clean and classy and will not affect my room asthetics in a way. Also it pass WF(Wife Factor). It also takes up lesser room space. Is it due to first method - simexperience setup can provide better, faster, fluid and stronger movement and hence most people prefer this setup?

    Thanks for help in advising.
  2. bsft

    bsft

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    Re: Wish to ask about potential meters and about diy rig

    Ok, maybe I can help.
    Potentiometers provide a feedback signal to tell the control board where the motor is going and where to stop. A cheap single turn pot will do fine for that, You can look at expensive multiturns later.
    The pot needs to have a lever on it that connects to the motor lever, so when motor lever turns, pot moves http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr2QqH55byc , and a photo of a different style of lever setup http://img101.imagevenue.com/img.php?im ... _510lo.JPG I made a long cut out lever. Others have done the same.
    You will need a control board to run the motors properly.
    Yes the JRK is simple, but does require some soldering, mainly the wire connections onto the board and 3 wires to the pot. Still the easiest to setup by far.
    OK, with sim design, yes 70% ish are motors at rear because of weight balance and shifting weight. At shoulders, the seat - frame can be moved with less force. SCN5 are only rated at 5-10kg force moving, whilst some DC motors like big worm gears are 30kg or winch motors at over 100kg. DC motors generally have a more fluid motion it seems that actuators, but I am open to difference in comments on that as I have not used actuators, couldnt afford them.
    Back to sim design, motors underneath will work and work well. I have built most of mine like that, using wipers and bigger worm gear motors. It would depend on drivers weight though. A well designed balance point should allow up to a 100 kg driver easily.
    As for a joyride I think you mean, with motors just under the seat front , heres what I built relating to that 2dof-redesigned-big-worm-gear-motor-sim-t3640.html
    It works, but dont sit more than 100kg driver on it. Not with 12v motors anyway. I am thinking of making another sim like it using 12 v winch motors.
    Otherwise, I did this 2-dof-big-motor-foot-placement-sim-t3822.html , the motors area t foot level and it moves 120kg of driver with ease , (I am 80 kg).
    Have a dig through the projects and remember to register on the new forum www.x-sim.de
    Regards, David.
  3. boons4

    boons4 New Member

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    Re: Wish to ask about potential meters and about diy rig

    Hi David tks for your detailed explaination once again. So the potantialmeter needs to give feedback back to polulu controllers. I get it now. Thanks. I really like the dc motor under seat toward rear side design rather than at leg portion I guess. If we enclose it with small ventilation hole to improve aesthetic. Do u think it will harm the motor?

    On my g27 pedal the potential meter spoilt after two yrs of use. Will such 1 pot used here in motion setup face same issue? Tks.
  4. bsft

    bsft

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    Re: Wish to ask about potential meters and about diy rig

    Ok, you are welcome. as for aesthetics.....um...depends on your design planned. So I do not understand what you mean by harming the motor.

    As for the G27, if its broken, find someone whom can fix it, The g27 wheel feedback has NOTHING to do with the motor feedback.
  5. boons4

    boons4 New Member

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    Re: Wish to ask about potential meters and about diy rig

    Hi David. You misunderstood me. I had repaired my g27 potential meter. I am asking for the 1 pot potential meter used for the motion rig dc motor, are they robust enough or should we get a spare set to standby incase they spoil after one yr since they too small and fragile ?

    As for the aesthetic thing. I read that the joyrider kind of design may cause the dc motor to heat up and some even use fan to blow at them. If I use some cloth to wrap the base so that people don't see the motor working, will such move cause heat built up more and harm the motors? Thanks.
  6. bsft

    bsft

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    Re: Wish to ask about potential meters and about diy rig

    Hello, if you mean cheap single turn pots, they are a good start, being low cost and easy to set up. If you want to go to multiturn pots then do so. Single turn pots here in Australia are about $3 each. I have used them with success in the past, only one failed after a few months use, and the rest kept going.
    They seem to be robust enough.
    With multiturn pots, they are about $30, and I have had one fail after a short time as well. Dammit. It was purely a batch thing for me, no one else whom bought the pots had issues.
    Others have had great success with single turn and multiturn pots.

    As for the joyride design, I would highly suggest cooling fans blowing on the motors, they will get warm to hot. You would just have to make the cloth cover to suit the setup. If you have a cover, remember, air in air out. Have ventilation even when covered. Look at a gaming PC case. They are covered but have good ventilation.

    Remember, we are using motors, pots and control boards for more than what they are suited for. Expect good results, but expect to repair if you have to. It will still be cheaper than buying a commercial unit.
    If the control boards are properly wired up and cooled with fans and heatsinks, you should never have a problem. Cool the motors as well.
    Cheers.
  7. boons4

    boons4 New Member

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    Re: Wish to ask about potential meters and about diy rig

    Hi David. Thanks. Looks like I will use the cheap single pot will do haha. Cheers! I will pray hard if I have a DIY built one day hope it can last two yrs no problem if not I sure don't know how to repair haha.
  8. bsft

    bsft

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    Re: Wish to ask about potential meters and about diy rig

    The only time I have had to repair is Potentiometer failures that were product batch related, just my luck.
  9. boons4

    boons4 New Member

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    Hi Guys... or rather BSFT David... seems like only David replying all my Q&As haha...

    I hope to ask experts here on the following question hope you all can help.

    Regards to power supply for 15V DC motors that requires 30amp:
    - what is the easiest way to build the power supply so that norma house 230V dc supply can be used.. such as the computer PSU.. As i hope to achieve it without using car battery. I saw some commercial product in the market selling at $190USD and it is costly if i have to buy 2 sets. Wonder can anyone advise or seen such PSU/step down transformer selling cheaper?
    - If using car battery is the easiest method? do we use two car battery? how to wire them up?

    About possible worm gear motor failure issue comared to SCN5 actuators:
    - I read from some threads that diy project using SCN5 actuators may face motor or pin break failure after say 2yrs usage, wrong setting or non-perfect angled mounting... I have a feeling that with worm gear 15V dc motor method, it seems that worm gear drive are simpler mechanism and hence will be more robust and sturdy compared to SCN5 actuators. Is my impression correct? Thanks.
  10. bsft

    bsft

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    Ok, just from me, so others, please advise.
    A car battery may cost new around $100 or more and a second hand one, obviously less.
    One car battery will run two big motors, but buy a cheap 240v car battery charger to trickle charge it whilst in use.
    As for power supplies, I had a long look.
    You can contact a local electronics shop and buy the parts (transformers, circuit boards, components) to make a powerful power supply, but it is almost the same cost as buying a proper switchmode power supply.
    For cost reasons, I run a $180 power supply and a second hand battery in parallel. Battery cost me $40, I think.
    With 12 or 24 or 240 v, you will always be looking at high cost of motors or power supply.
    As for actuators, once again, I have not used them, but have heard stories of them breaking and or wearing fast due to incorrect mounting, but then again, many have had great success with them. But actuators are costly and do not move the weight that a decent motor can. As said, some one please correct me on this.
    With motors and or actuators, they will break if they are mounted incorrectly or too much load put on them.
    Aldoz and Eaorobbie has proved that 12v boat winch motors are very strong, but large in size and noisy.
    I have proved that the big dayton motors are very strong, so much so the supplier even re-written the details about them on his site.
    Now can others please advise this newcomer as there is a wealth of information here.
    Please share the love.
  11. boons4

    boons4 New Member

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    Hi pal I am boon. Ur email got problem all mail bounced. Do u have another email address? Tks. As need to ask u on the math setting urgently