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what kind of motion sim is this?

Discussion in 'New users start here - FAQ' started by steveh2112, May 12, 2014.

  1. steveh2112

    steveh2112 Member

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    Hi all, I've been thinking about building a motion simulator for years, mostly for the jet fighter simulation gaming.

    I came across this video, which is the kind of machine I'd like to build.
    [Media = youtube]-JrvLWvcMhc [/ MEDIA]

    what is the technical description of this kind of sim please?, ie no. of DOF, etc. I'd like to know so when i call and ask questions about it in the future, i have the right terminology.

    also, i understands the mechanics of that rig pretty well and think i could build something similar (but not as pretty), but I'm wondering where to start on the software? i am a computer programmer by trade and have worked with automation and industrial control hardware misc before so i know what I'm doing, like PLCs, but have no experience on the game side.

    thanks, steve
  2. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    Hi Steve that kind of sim is a joyflyer as a variation of the joyrider. Just my thoughts when I saw the video. :)
  3. steveh2112

    steveh2112 Member

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    sorry, i do not think i posted the correct link. here it is

  4. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    Its actually a 2 DOF - Pitch and Roll only. Looks fun, but you would need some big motors and a slip ring system for power and motor control. Software easy, the big challenges would be hardware.
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  5. steveh2112

    steveh2112 Member

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    I agree about the big motors, golf cart motor or something else I'm thinking about cheap and easy to find where i live (Thailand).

    About the slip ring, i was hoping to avoid some of that by limiting the pitch to + / - 180 degrees so the motor could be cabled to roll.

    The electronics in the Cockpit could run on batteries, and communicate via wifi.

    I wonder about how many HP motor would be needed? I guess it all depends on how fast I want to pitch and roll. I'm wondering, just to get started with the parts i have, use a couple of electric drills (800W). the only thing is, what kind of controller could drive a 220VAC variable speed drill via control input?

    By the way, the compose function on this forum Keeps swapping words around at random!
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  6. playseatracer

    playseatracer New Member

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    so asWill Smith said in the July 4 "I have got to have one of these"
  7. steveh2112

    steveh2112 Member

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    please forgive the noob question, but what is the preferred software for a multiplayer combat fighter game using modern jets (not WW 1 & 2 stuff) that can send roll and pitch commands to a 2DOF motion sim like the joyrider platform.

    how would you typically get the roll and pitch commands to an Arduino board and then onto the motor controller / feedback loop?

    thanks
  8. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    If your a computer programmer with a background in automation then none of this should be difficult for you. Have a read through the site, all the information you need is here. A list of supported games is in the 'SimTools' area. Roll and pitch data would come from your sims aircraft joystick to the game and then feed back out via simtools then via USB to the controller/drivers card/cards which drive the motors. Feedback for the motors is normally via a variable resister connected to the motors shaft. Really no different to any other automation system.
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  9. steveh2112

    steveh2112 Member

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    [Quote = "SeatTime, post: 55859, member: 9228"] If your a computer programmer with a background in automation then none of this should be difficult for you. Have a read through the site, all the information you need is here. A list of supported games is the 'SimTools' area. Aircraft roll and pitch data would come from the joystick to your sims out of the game and then feed back to the controller via USB via simtools then / drivers card / cards which drive the motors. Feedback for the motors is normally connected to the motors shaft via a variable resister. Really no different to any other automation system. [/ Quote]

    thanks, i just started looking at that area, there is a lot to read. Googling around, it looks like Falcon 4 BMS is the best combat flight sim using modern planes (F16) and I see there is a plugin for it in the simtools area. are there any other combat flight sims i should be looking at?
  10. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Gold Contributor

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    Falcon BMS is indeed an awesome sim, there are thousands of pilots still active in the game. Pretty amazing considering how old it is.

    Digital Combat Sims (DCS) is another great title with a growing list of flyable planes; including the A10, F15, P51, and several helicopters.

    FSX has a huge modding community and there is an F-18 Mod that allows combat and also has a large community.
  11. steveh2112

    steveh2112 Member

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    i've started playing with falcon 4 bms, its very impressive, and can't beat the price.

    i mentioned on the BMS forum i was thinking of building a 2DOF joyrider type mosim. many of the members totally dissed the idea since the actual feeling you get in a moving plane is far more complicated than simply the attitude of the plane. they say the rig i'm looking at cannot simulate more than 1G and -1G (inverted) and isn't much good for anything really.

    has anyone actually flown in a flight simulator on a 2DOF rig like this? is it fun to fly or does it just make you dizzy and sick?

    thx
  12. bsft

    bsft

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    If you are referring to this http://www.acesim.com/main.html , they are design as a flight sim frame, be it 2DOF.
    If you are concerned about sickness of a simulator movement, forget the 360 deg sim you have in mind.
    With motion sim, the idea is NOT to actually put you through a physical amount of force. Its a mind trick. An illusion.
    The idea is tricking the brain into thinking you are going through a force in relation to movement generated. Granted I have not played a flight sim game, I stick to racing, but I think @eaorobbie can add to that part of the conversation, as he has played flight sims on his seat mover sim and still gotten the required effect, at under 10 deg total swing of the frame.
    Back to immersion, my sister in law, first time played on my desk racer sim, with wheel stand in front of the telly in the lounge room. After a few races in dirt games, she got the actual idea of a motion sim, mind tricked realism . Even she though and felt those jumps, dips, leans into the corners, she thought she was being pushed around with a lot more force than what was being generated.
    If you want real forces in the "g"s , go buy a real race car or plane.
  13. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    The Joyrider gives you that nice swing motion depending on how aggressive the motor or actuators can be. With motion sims , my opinion is we simulate the G forces we do not replicate them, put simple the cues of motion mixed with the on screen graphics fools the brain into thinking it just felt 2g while only really feeling 0.5g as an example figures not accurate. Then with a triple screen or maybe even vr glasses (come a long way quickly) the immersion factor can make the whole ride feel like real life, But ya safe in your living room.

    The 360 deg sim is a nice unit the boys started the development on the other site but remove most of the build info when it went commercial, not sure if they have survived, hope they have. Well it was using 2kw ac servos running through worm gear boxes and double chain to drive each axis directly. About 15k spent from memory, but looked like one hell of a ride. When I first saw the proto version it ran K8061 control boards , not sure what the end result was but to me the simplest and most effective controller would be a PLC and encoder feedback on motor positioning too.

    Sounds like you have an interesting build about to happen.
    Keep us informed.
    Cheers
  14. steveh2112

    steveh2112 Member

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    i've been talked out of building a simulator by some members on the BMS flight sim forum. also, i figure something that spins around like this will likely make me motion sick pretty quick and my wife doesn't want something this big in the house. its been interesting thinking about it however. thanks to all who replied.
  15. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Its cool @steveh2112, no harm in dreaming I think we all would love to have that sim too, I know I would love it.
    Good luck in your build.
  16. bsft

    bsft

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    Members of BMS forum talked you out of building a simulator? Maybe the 360 deg one, but as @eaorobbie says, you can still get good immersion with a reasonable size frame like the joyrider.
    Obviously those members being spoken of at BMS havent actually seen or been on a simulator Id say. So they dont sound qualified to actually tell you to build a sim or not.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    Yea they sound like experts:rolleyes:, I think any sort of synchronised movement (even a bass shaker) is better than a stationary chair.
  18. bsft

    bsft

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    Ha! I was having a "discussion" on another forum with a member claiming that motion is a complete waste of time and money. Big talk from someone who has apparently spent over $10k on a stationary sim. Needless to say, 3 motion sim owners stuck it up him and challenged him to prove his point. No reply yet.
    • Like Like x 1
  19. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    [QUOTE="steveh2112, post: 55976, member: 10373" my wife doesn't want something this big in the house. its been interesting thinking about it however. thanks to all who replied.[/QUOTE]
    GSeat or 2DOF seat mover can be very compact! with good WAF
    Go ahead in motion simulator, yes!
  20. bsft

    bsft

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