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These JRK's are taking the PID!!! :)

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by Archie, Feb 16, 2015.

  1. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

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    OK. I've started a new thread to hopefully end up with a "complete noobs guide to setting up the JRK" which I will then write up for the FAQ at some point from my point of view as a beginner!

    Got a few questions. I followed your guide @bsft to set the feedback however once I set MAX and MIN the bloody thing just won't "find" centre.

    So my question is, what comes first the PID settings (to send some power to the motor) or the feedback? Do you need to get PID settings down pat and then do the feedback?

    Consfued :confused:
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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  3. bsft

    bsft

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    feedback first, then PID and motor settings
    @Archie , I emailed you a whole heap on info last night.
    Drop us a line at the ziltoid email and point out what you are unsure of
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  4. bsft

    bsft

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    and STOP using the find centre function!!!!!!
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  5. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Thanks @bsft Followed your guide and Robs to the letter and the JRK's are fine in the Pololu Utillity, I can move the input slider all over the ranges and the sim tilts around as it should.

    However, I go into Assetto Corsa and fire up the game (it's patched and I'm trying to set my Axis directions) as soon as start to drive I can see on the JRK Utility that "connection has been lost" to the JRK's. It's random and not always the same one and then Simtools crashes.

    I seem to be getting random errors. Sometimes both motors work fine in AC for a few minutes, then one stops (not always the same one) but always Simtools crashes. I'm using the latest plugin. I just spent coins to get it. I will try Dirt 3 and see if things improve.

    It's driving me up the wall :)
  6. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Adding a separate USB card rather than using the USB's from the motherboard helped me a lot.
    Don't know if this helps with your problem. If you have a separate card laying around, give it a try at least.
  7. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

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    Thanks @value1 - Certainly something odd going on with my USB I think. I do get the windows "dun dun" sound when the JRK's stop making me think it's the USB bus.

    It's a fairly new computer and I only have a KB and mouse plugged in, so should be able to handle. Frustrating for sure!!

    PS - Dirt3 does the same, get to a corner, get some motion then everything bombs out and Sim Tools crashes. :(
  8. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    Have you got a USB 2 hub lying around, if so give that a go as well. Plus check there are no errors being reported in the JRK Utlilities Error Tab. You can run it and AC windowed.
  9. bsft

    bsft

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    please post screen shots of each tab of each JRK utility program.
    Also, try in the FEEDBACK tab, there a "analog samples" its usually 128 standard, use the drop down box and ramp it up to 1052, apply settings
    In Game engine, where you put in the settings for the JRK , put all times at 20ms on both interface settings windows.
  10. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Feckin Gremlins in the System for sure. Turned everything off to go for family dinner, come back and turn everything on and the motor that was perfect before now goes to a funny off angle the wrong way and no amount of feedback config seems to assist. I'm over it for the night. I even replaced all the wiring on the Pots just incase and still no good. Just one motor is behaving, the other won't play ball.
    (In JRK after I hit learn it inverts the feedback which I noticed it did the first time, but now no settings seems to work)

    Dicky motor: (Not powered or in the odd angle, just for placement reference) (Left side front)
    IMG_5432.JPG

    Working Motor: (right side front) *when sat in Sim
    IMG_5433.JPG

    And this is a quick video before I went to dinner - both motors working just fine. Grrrr. (Using JRK tool to move motors with slider)

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B16Om_xkWtbuQWl1WFpYLUV0SDA/view?usp=sharing

    @bsft - will post settings etc tomorrow night...

    New day tomorrow, will tackle it again then. :)
  11. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Yes please post setting you are using , plus another little one you can check is if your using hall effects is if they are reaching their min and maxs on the pot , even on an overshoot , which will lead to an out of range error.
    Please post the jrk FeedBack,PID, Motor, and Error TAB's then I can advise whats going on.
    Plus another you can test on is the Interface , set it too 7bits , found the 12bit to be a little buggy for me, I actually use my own 12bit net interface to run them. Still a very early beta app, Sorry guys.
  12. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

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    Thanks Gents (@bsft @eaorobbie @noorbeast and others) I really appreciate the time you guys take out of your days to assist me and others!

    I will post screenshots tonight, will likely be late again before I can tinker due to family / work (I know right... the cheek of it, taking my Sim time like that!!!)

    I was going to ask the question about Multi Turn Pots (mine are the Hall Effect ones)... How do you know if they are out of bounds when the thing just keeps turning?
    The JRK seems to reading it OK, however the values do seem high to me. (even after a learn)
  13. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    If there aren’t any markings on your hall effect pots indicating where the min and max range is then the best way to find it is to use a volt meter and connect its probes to the ground and output pins of the hall pot (with the 5v pin on hall connected to power). You can then make your own markings if you wish at the min and max range by turning the pot by hand and finding them.
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  14. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    The JRK config graph is also handy for checking the pot. Double click on it to make it bigger and you can move the pot by hand and see the results.
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  15. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

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    I think I know what I have done here... I could kick myself.

    I bought these Pots: http://au.element14.com/bi-technolo...-5/sensor-hall-0-2v-20v-to-10v-pin/dp/2319662
    For their Multi TURN capability, but completely forgot when installing it that it will only feedback through 180 degrees of that turn and then "flip back to 0" on the next revolution.

    I am 99% sure that I have installed the pot at the 3/4 point and halfway into it's turn it "going back 0" which would of course be out of bounds and cause the motor to "flip"" until feedback comes back.

    Far out. I need to stop working on this Sim "while tired". (Should be a government incentive!!)

    I will test tonight and post pics etc.

    Still keen to find out why the JRK's disconnect when the motors fire up. I will try the 7bit suggestion.
    does slowing the BAUD assist with these things, or not really?
  16. bsft

    bsft

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    with the hall effect, heres how I found the centre.
    with NO 12v power going ,
    I opened the utility program, went to feedback tab, click "reset to full range" , clicked apply, I rotated the pot shaft around and I looked in the graph, (top right hand corner) , in fact I double clicked it to make it bigger. I turned the pot till it started to show a reading of the line. Once I found the 50% mark, I set the lever at that point and marked the pot with a texta so I knew where the centre was.
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  17. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

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    Cheers Dave - My plan exactly :)

    Hopefully I have good news tonight.....
  18. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOO! She be moving!!

    Started everything again and long story short, it's all working!

    What I did was:

    Feedback Pots.
    Reset JRK to Factory Default.
    Removed the Pots and turned by hand to ensure correct feedback, both were good.
    Found centre feedback point for both pots was about 1966, pot Maxed out at 3933.
    Centred my lever and held it in place. Centred the pot and placed it back in the coupler. Tightened hard.

    Control Arm / Lever
    Measure my angles from scratch again, so at centre about 8cm from the base, so measured 4cm up and 4cm down
    Both pots gave very similar feedback ratings for Max and Min. Applied settings. Of course one side was inverted.

    PID and Motors
    Set P to 0.1 and samples to 512. Left D alone for now.
    Set Max Duty to 100.
    Accel to 100
    Amps to 35
    Amp Cal 130
    Max duty out of range 100.
    Ran the motor on both JRK and going the right direction.
    Turned off Motor.
    Set P to 0.39
    Set D to 0.5
    Set Max Duty to 400
    Set Accel to 400
    Amps 35
    Amp Cal 130
    Max Duty OoR 400.
    Applied settings for both and ran motor and input slider. All working fine.

    BEST OF ALL NO DISCONNECTS.

    Then turned my attention to the wiring.
    It appears my Emergency Mushroom switch was playing up. Removed that and wired straight to the JRK.
    (Kept powerboard with an off switch close at hand!)
    I had also screwed down the JRK to the base. I suspect the motor start was giving it a "jolt" so I've rested the JRK on some padding while keeping it raised a little for cooling.
    When motors snap to Centre on Power up, no more disconnects. :)

    Tested again in the Util sliders and both motors running fine.

    Simtools
    Fired up Simtools and set Interfaces. Used the 7bit JRK profile, following Rob's observations. (might revert back to 12bit after a few games)
    Set my Axis assignments for Assetto Corsa.
    axis1.JPG
    axis2.JPG

    Got in my seat and drove off into the virtual sunset.... a happy man!

    Many, MANY, MANY thanks to all who assisted in this setup - @bsft @noorbeast @eaorobbie @value1 @BlazinH . I will revert back to my Showroom post now and post a video there :)
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  19. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    Glad you got it sorted @Archie, now the fun begins!
  20. bsft

    bsft

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    I run 12bit, but I dont run it as wild as @eaorobbie does. I recall he runs his motors absolutely flat out. My dual sims runs about 40% power as I dont need players getting possibly hurt and my brickie sim because of high rpm motors runs about 50% power. It does the job well.
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