The Deaks race simulator project has begun (sort of)

After reading almost every post on this site (honestly) I am just about ready to undertake my first motion sim project

My welder friend is coming round to my place tomorrow so we can discuss fabrication methods and what aluminium to use.
I have done a drawing to calculate the correct angles and dimension based on the very helpful information found on this site, but I would really appriciate some feedback on whether my calculations are on the right path.......


Last week my G27 finally arrived, and I have now finished my wheel adapter for my OMP (copy) 320mm D shape wheel and a pair of titanium shifter paddles.
The paddles took ages as I do not have access to fancy plasma cutters, just a jigsaw, pillar drill, angle grinder and hand files, I am very pleased with the end result, next job is to make a button mount for the wheel and wire into the now missing G27 button circuit.

When I find my card reader for the camera I will post some pics

I have my universal joint from a mitsubishi shogun 4x4 so it should be strong enough for my 100kg body!!!

So guys, please feel free to comment on my dimension /angle calculations, I want to start fabricating as soon as possible, hopefully I will have the funds to buy the SimXperience starter kit and damper kit + 3rd Actuator before Christmas

I calculate that the damper arms will be around 840mm, I am pretty sure there is enough adjustment in length to accomodate this dimension, if not can someone let me know otherwise.

Finally, I just want to make sure that a 2DOF with an (inspired by SimXperience) rear traction loss 3rd actuator is going to be the best way to go for realistic as possible race 'feel' within a resonable buget and engineering skill level???

Thanks in advance

Deaks

I think your geometry will be a good starting point. You could make the frame easily customizable by adding extra length to the base, and extra width to the dampening bar. The actuator rod can also be extended/retracted easily if needed. Modifying these 3 parameters you can find out what works better.

The rear traction loss is definitely a great way of adding realism to the motion given a limited budget and engineering level. An other one would be vertical movement, but that is a lot harder to do effectively.

I didn't spend the time to convert all of the measurements for comparison, but it looks close.

I wouldn't suggest aluminum for this though. It's too light and causes the simulator to jump around, even with good dampening mechanisms. It basically presents a compromise because you will have to over-dampen, or suffer motion quality consequences of a sim that jumping around.

If you use steel, you'll save some money and gain some motion quality.

With regard to the third actuator, I, of course think it adds alot, but I'm not sure that my opinion counts much since its my design

This weekend I mocked up the cockpit to make sure my estimated dimensions were OK.
I made it from some 4x2 timber and plywood that was lying around the yard so cost was almost nothing
I know it looks like it was constructed by a farmer but it done the trick and allowed me to get detailed dimensions for the aluminium version.



Here are some pics of the modded G27 wheel and titanium paddle shifters




I have now prepared most of the drawings that enabled me to produce a fairly accurate materials list and cutting list. Tomorrow, I will order the aluminium 8)

Tim, my welder friend wants to start welding the main chassis parts on Friday, so it's going to be a busy week preparing the parts ready for welding.

Bad news on my plans to order the actuators before Christmas, I was hoping to complete on a house sale last week that would give me the funds to buy everything I need, but two days before exchange of contracts, my buyers buyer pulled out, putting me back to where I was almost three months ago
I am hoping to find a new buyer this week, so fingers crossed.

I tried running Rfactor and GT Evolution on my i7 based MacbookPro tonight.....Wow it ran really well.
I cant decide between 3 monitors maybe 28' Ilyama PC monitors or 3x 40 LCD TV's The cost for the 40 TV's is more and I could use the PC monitors on my edit system when not 'racing' I want as much immersion as possible, so maybe the 40 option is the best.

I have a spare dual 3.6ghz Xeon system that should be good as I note that many games do not handle multi core cpu's very well. I would like to use the ATi 5870 for the 3 screens.
Do any of the racing games output dolby 5.1 surround sound?

I also plan on using 6 Aura bass shaker pro's, 2 in the seat base, 2 in the steering wheel mount plate and 2 in the pedal/footplate assembly. Has anyone used these and if so what do you think of them?

Hopefully I will start cutting the aluminum on tuesday this week :clap:

Deaks

Nice project, keep it up 8)

I like your suede wheel very much.

I'd go for the 40 if you can afford it. I run one 42 LCD right behind the wheel and the feeling of immersion is already incredible.
I can't wait to get the budget for the 5870 and 2 little brothers for the 42 screen

The Xeon or the i7 should be both capable of running X-Sim + any game you throw at it, at least in a single screen setup. For the triple screen, I'd go with a small PC to run the X-Sim Profiler and the Xeon with a 5870... or two for the games and Force-Sender.

On the bass shaker side, it's a great addition, but I think you're going a little overboard. With 2x 100W bass shakers bolted to my seat, the whole room is vibrating already at low frequencies, and at ultra low frequencies you can feel the whole floor shaking under your feet ! So with 6, are you planning to levitate the whole sim ?
Moreover, I don't think adding vibration to the wheel mount would help in any way, and I believe that would distract a lot the FFB of the steering wheel.
A bass shaker in the pedal assembly might be a good idea, a few X-Sim members are using this kind of setup (ledfoot comes to mind first) so maybe they can give you a better tip on that one. I imagine you would need a good math setup to make something interesting of it if you want to use the X-Sim BassShaker plugin, or do you plan to connect them all on the same Buttkicker type filter/amp ?

Cheers,

Silly(c)One.

December Update

Thanks for the replies.

Bvillersjr :- I understand your concerns about the light weight of aluminium construction but I do plan on sitting this bad boy sub woofer behind the seat:-



Another reason was that luckily I can get lots of aluminium very cheap ( a round of golf in the summer) My mate Chris runs an aluminium stockholders



Another mate Tim is a welder and has an AC TIG welding set up .... He like beer in return for welding

The raw materials arrived last week and I have spent 4 days in a freezing workshop cutting and preparing all the oparts ready for welding, it should be ready for me to collect tomorrow.

Silly(c)One :- Hmm maybe six bass shakers is rather excessive, the trouble is that I have never seen or felt any in action, so I guess I was trying to avoid being dissapointed. Another reason is that here in the UK the bass Shakers are very expensive almost $170 a pair !!! If I get 6 from parts express they work out reasonable cost even with the shipping. I suppose I could always sell what I don't use.

I plan on driving them with a couple of spare power amps I have kicking around the place with some low pass cross overs from the pre outs on my Pioneer surround amp LFE/SUB outputs.

There may well be a change in how I make this project move...... I simply do not have enough spare cash at the moment to but the planned SCN5's as my house sell has fallen through (getting divorced and having to sell the family home, boy 2010 has been a bad year :? )
But today I was given this :-



I am currently charging the batteries overnight to see if it works.
The spec on the motors is:-
Dynamic Controls Ltd WMT90110
DC24V
8 AMP continuous
120 rpm =/- 10 rpm ( I suspect that this maybe too slow??)
Stated Torque 50Nm (pretty pokey)

Can anyone suggest some options on how to control these motors, I know the Pololu controllers are only 12V.
My electronic skills are very basic, but my soldering skills are OK after years of making up cables for broadcast.
Are there any off the shelf controllers that I could use? I have an RS electronics account so I can source most things.

I have another friend who is good with electronic stuff, so maybe I could call on his skills and build a controller, maybe the Thanos one???

I hope to start assmebly of the welded parts later this week, but with Christmas almost here I dont think things will progress that much :

Everyone have a great Christmas :clap:

Deaks

I'm very curious about the aluminum and welding, do you think you can post some details about that ? Thinkness of the aluminum, Amp of the welding station, Type of tig wire ...

You talk about a third DOF, where are you going to put that ?
Electronically, what board are you going to use ? Thanos ? Polulu ? Other ?

Sorry for these question, but your project look very interresting to me.

A quick answer about the bass shakers : I bought a pair of 100W bass shakers on ebay (from Germany or Austria) for 55€ including shipping (2*19€ + 17€) and they shake the whole floor of the apartment.
Moreover, 2 bass shakers on the seat would be too much I heard (and tbh I don't feel much difference with one or two on the seat, so one is enough), so I intend to keep one bolted below the seat and bolt the other one on my base board next to the pedals. I'll keep my thread up to date with the results...
BTW, I'm not sure a power amp with sub woofer filters is the same as a Buttkicker amp/filter... I had initially hacked my 5.1 Logitech system to use the bass shaker instead of the subwoofer speaker, and there was far too many high pitched sounds coming out of my seat. I will use an Aura Interactor amp just as a filter, it has quite a few settings that I believe change a lot the experience of the bass shakers (normal/A/B ?, Game/Music, a power pot and a filter pot). Else you have to use the Bass Shaker plugin for X-Sim and I am personally not convinced at all by that solution for the following reasons :
- you define the sound of the shakers through game outputs going through mathematical formulas... Good luck to do something that sounds good
- for most games, it is almost impossible for X-Sim to find the informations we need in a shaker : kerb sounds, real RPM feel of the engine based on the sound of it, collisions and other noises that should be felt through vibration, so X-Sim is limited to a feel of the RPMs and speed.
That's not X-Sim fault, the software, as incredible as it is, can only do what it can with the datas available to it.

And let's hope 2011 will be a better year than 2010
(you lost your mariage, I lost both my parents in 13 months...)

Cheers,
Silly(c)One.

Great job on the sim so far. Having buit an aluminum sim and now owning a SimXperience sim made of steel, I definitly agree with Berney's comments about the difference the weight of steel makes to the overall stabaility of the sim and the resulting improved motion quality. I do, however, understand your reason for choosing aluminum since the price and availabiliy to you was right .

I'm currently using 2 Butkicker home theater LFE's. One mounted under my seat and the other attached to my pedal mount. Using a 1200watt power amp, these LFE's provide more than enough vibration effects and the leave me with plenty of headroom so I do not have to worry about them shutting down when driven very hard. I use an EQ to properly tailor the low frequency effects for each LFE which I found very helpfull when trying to work with different cars and mods that had varying sould effects and sould levels.

...Mike

The main title should now say :-
The Deaks simulator (phase 1) is now complete :clap:

Its been a while, but since Christmas I have now a working rig (no motion) instead of a pile of different aluminium sections.

The next stage will be to add motion, I would still really prefer to use Simxperience starter kit, but simply dont have the required funds yet.

Here are some pics of the progress:-




My method of making sure that people of different heights could use the rig has worked out quite well. It only takes a couple of minutes to slide the whole pedal and wheel assembly forwards or backwards up to 5 inches either way.
You can see how I did this in the pic below:-



Here is a pic of the rig from underneath during assembly:-



I have fitted two bass shakers under the seat and one under the foot plate assembly. The seat shakers work really well, but I'm a bit disapointed with the one under my feet. I might mount it behind the pedal mount instead, as I tried this with my wooden prototype and it worked well.

Thanks to ebay, I was lucky to pick up a high lumens projector (720p not 1080p) for just over a hundred pounds from a company close to where i live.
It's a monster and the picture quality is good enough for now. The bulbs have a couple of hundred hours left, but when they go I will just throw it in the bin as the bulbs are almost £300 each :thbd:



I made a projector screen with a 2x2 timber frame and curtain blackout fabric. The screen is 84 x 57.
I painted the walls a round the rig matt black and this has made a huge difference.
I am still unconvinced with a single big flat projection as the FOV is not that realistic. There are a few options, some more expensive than others.

I could (when funds permit) use two 1080p projectors and build a curved screen with at least 120 degree FOV. the projectors would be about £800 each, but the screen would not cost very much to make, about £100 at the most. But the NTHsim software is around £300. The other option is warpiliser, but I have no idea how much that costs.
OR
Buy three 46 or 50 1080p televisions and make a study mount. The problem with this is that I would need to replace my graphics card, this would cost me £250 for an ATI 6950 and three screens at about £600 each.

I really have the bug now and want to ensure that my project turns out to be as good as possible. The cost differences between projection and curved screen is not that different to using three tv's.

However, for now I will just carry on with the big single projector, until it the bulbs stop working. Has anyone used TrackIR successfully? This maybe cheaper option for me. The problem will be mounting the camera, although I didd read somewhere that the camera can be mounted to the side, which would be possible for my setup.

The next stage is to add some motion. The question I need to ask is, Are scn5 based systems much more responsive that a motor and tronicgr AMC & H bridge setup????

I have some 140watt 12v electric wheelchair motors that could be used. I also have some 24v mobility chair motors also, but it seems that 24v is more difficult. I was going to try the Pololu JRK12v12 but they are out of stock. So it looks like the AMC route may be the way to go for now.
Can the AMC and Hbridge system work with 24v motors?

I have been using rfactor with the FIA GT Fun mod. My favourite car is the Saleen S7 GT1 car, but I love driving it on the Bathurst track!!!
The bass shakers get to work hard using the Saleen car

So guys, as usual any advice and comments will be gratefully received, especially regarding the motion options and the most immersive display methods.

The rig is in a dedicated room, and I no longer have a wife to nag me about noise,cables etc etc 8)

Thanks in advance

Deaks

Nice Rig Deaks, can i be cheaky and ask how much the ally frame cost to build as it looks excellent quality.

To be honest it cost me a round of golf in the summer for Chris who supplied the aluminium (approx cost to me £25)
The welding by another mate Tim did cost me £100 as it took him 3 days to jig it all up and weld it together. He used a really good AC TIG welder, and his welding is excellent.

I dread to think how much the aluminium would have really cost if I had to pay 'normal' prices, a good few hundred pounds I suspect :uups:

It does flex a bit, which is no problem in its current form, but when I add the rear traction loss (whenever that may be) I will add some steel L section inside the main chassis rails from underneath.

I am really pleased with it so far and love the way it looks. I cant wait to get the motion working. please come back to me ASAP about the AMC stuff ;D

Cheers for now

Deaks

Things are starting to progress at last.
I have been using my setup with a rather old projector and no motion for a little while, and it has been fun but also frustrating as I was unable to afford the motion parts or change the projector................but this week my 3x 50 LG Plasma screens have arrived and my Simxperience SX-3000 starter kit should arrive next monday (16th May).

I need to decide on the best angle for the screens, in my rough mock up tests 45 degrees seems to be too wide and 80 degrees seems a bit enclosed, so I guess that somewhere around 60 degrees will be about right. The steel framework to hang these monster screens is going to need some working out, I cant decide whether the left and right monitors should be hinged to allow for angle changes, I am thinking that may just be making things too complicated.

So what do you guys think the best angle should be?? I think rfactors multiview setting is based on a 45 degree angle. I am thinking of giving iracing a go, can the angle be defined in iracing to avoid weird distortions?

I will upload some new pics tomorrow of the new screens.

thanks in advance

Deaks

Iracing has the best Triple Screen correction software. You can set every paratmeter, and it calculates the values. I have 3 32 LCDs and use around 60 degrees.

Do you have new pictures?