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Steps to build a motion simulator

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Alle, Sep 17, 2007.

  1. Alle

    Alle Member

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    Hi,
    nice to meet you all!
    Finally I have found this fantastic website and forum that can help me to reach one of my desire...to build my own motion simulator.

    It is my first time so I'm not expert in this kind of things. I need your help and experience to define the steps to build my motion simulator.

    I would like to build a motion simulator to use it with F1 cars.
    My idea is to have:
    - a complete cockpit that can move. I meen not only the seat but also the steering wheel, monitor or projector...
    - use electric actuators (I do not have compressed air for pneumatic actuator)
    - use X-simulator software

    Now, I have to define the global work to reach the goal.
    My idea is to divide the overall work into the following steps:

    1 - define the frame of the cockpit (Shape and all items needed to support the different devices)
    2 - choose for my case, the best control interfaces for IO-Output (I'm not expert in this)
    3 - define the electric actuators and place them on the frame
    4 - use X-simulator software

    In your experience, are these the right steps?or is it better to procede with different steps?

    Thank you very much for your support.

    Alessandro.

    P.S. Is there already a project developed that meet the requirements of my project?
  2. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    Hi Allessandro

    Welcome!

    We are making our first steps with electric actuators as well. Tronicgr has imho the best setup working simulator with X-Sim and wiper motors currently.
    His setup is driven by basic stamp controllers wich are connected to some servo drivers.
    You can see it here
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mzbrOhtx4A
    tronics-full-motion-car-racing-simulator-using-x-sim-t471.html

    Another good working sim, which is a platform type, like you want to build, is CW' one.
    But his sim is I/O card driven still.
    my-motion-car-simulator-t554.html

    Right now we are all waiting for Tronicgr' new DIY interface, which will be able to drive DC motors and servo drives.
    tronics-pwm-servo-control-interface-with-encoder-pot-input-t559.html

    I think you should start with your frame. Until you will be be ready with it, Thanos should have released his interface hopefully ;)

    Do you have some sketches of your project? Perhaps some CAD drawings?

    ego
  3. RaceRay

    RaceRay Administrator Staff Member SimAxe Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, SimAxe, SimforceGT
    Hello Allessandro,

    nice to see you.
    At first you should choose your desired mechanical setup.
    Simplistic written, there are 3 common setup´s for cheap and effective simulators:

    A) Frex
    B) motion platform (@ego, now, i differentiate Frex and MoPlat.. ;-))
    C) RnR

    For a simulator which is mainly used for racing games, many people prefer the Frex design, but there isn´t moving the Wheel, pedals, and screen.

    So your decision depends on your own taste.

    @ego
    Good keyword, maybe you can publish the Solid Edge files for the interested parties , so that everyone can build the simForceGT?
  4. Alle

    Alle Member

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    Thank you guys for your answer and support.
    Very interesting information.

    Now I will get a look into the different projects that you have showed me and the different opportunities. Then I will choose the best solution available for my case.


    At the moment I haven't any cad drawing avaiable.
    First step is to understand what i really want to realize....then drawings ;-)

    Maybe I can do this thing...
    1- I get a look into the different projects available
    2- I realize a little sketch (very simple) of my idea
    3- I show you the sketch with indication of what i want to realize
    4- You indicate me if it is possible to realize it and you give me some advises. (Please consider that I know few things about electronic and I/O devices).

    Then I can start with the drawings of the frame.


    Regards,
    Alessandro.
  5. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    Let's go! ;)

    Btw, imho you should forget the I/O interfaces. But it we are happy about everyone with some skills in elektronics ;)

    Concerning the interfaces I cannot tell you more than that we are waiting all for Thanos new pwm/servo controller.

    But there is the possibility to use a basic stamp interface with some parallax HB-25 servo controllers.

    Please read through our DIY Simulators section to get familiar with the latest projects.

    Do you have some skills regarding pwm motor controllers?

    ego
  6. Alle

    Alle Member

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    Ok.

    The important for me, regarding the I/O devices, is to understand what kind of electric actuators can be controlled by them actually with good result. In this way i can choose a right electric actuator for my project.
    For example, if I choose an actuator that I'm nopt able to control with software and I/O devices....the I have to review completely my project.
    I'm new...so it is difficult for me at the beginning.

    Regarding my skill, i have some skill regarding the PWM control but not applied to motors. (for the moment ;-) )

    Alessandro.
  7. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    I/O devices provide just single speed. They are crap!

    Use tronigs Servo Controller (like the one is used within his youtube simulator vids) with some DC Motors, or wait for his new PWM Controller.

    I would not recommend you to build a sim with a I/O board.

    ego
  8. Alle

    Alle Member

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    Ok, thank you very much for the info.

    Only one thing...may I take into consideration this kind of actuators (electrical cylinders) for my projet?

    Actuator



    Is it possible to control them with X- sim software + a controller?

    Kind regards,
    Alessandro.
  9. tronicgr

    tronicgr

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    Hi Alessandro,

    I have seen your email but the x-sim team already answered you all your questions.

    But I had something different in mind beyond the standard solutions...

    My suggestion is to try to compose a hybrid of my motion cockpit (joyrider) and a frex system. This way you could have it all! True acceleration simulation (by leaning the whole cockpit using the earth's acceleration), and fast shakes and bumps that Frex system provides. I had this in mind when decided to start my new controller that supports 4 actuators. And I might try to convert my joyrider's seat to add a limited frex motion if I finish with the current projects...

    One of the other things I do along with the controller is to make detailed plans of the metalic motor mounting (and seat,LCD mounting) in autocad for others to see how I managed to add the motors on the joyrider:

    [​IMG]joyriderpulley2Model1.pdf (54.49 KB)

    Regards, Thanos
  10. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    @Alle

    have you an idea about how expensive the electric cylinders from Festo are?
  11. Alle

    Alle Member

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    @egoexpress
    No I don't have an ideaof the price. But my example it was only to show you what kind of actuator I meen. Maybe I can choose another supplier.
    The important is only to understand if I can use these kind of actuators and use them with X-sim.


    @Thanos
    Your idea of mixing two different solutions to reach the best simulation is very interesting.
    I have another doubt. (sorry for my doubts but I'm new ;-))

    If i decide to realize a motion cockpit with three electric cylinders ( two positioned on the sides of the cockpit to simulate the lateral G effect of turns, and one on the back to simulate the acceleration of engine and of the brakes) is it possible to have also fast shakes and bumps?
    What I meen is: Is it possible to simulate with n°3 electrical cilinders G effects, shakes and bumps all togheter combining them with software and then reproducing them on the cockpit with the electric cylinders?
    Is fast enoght?

    Alle
  12. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    They are damn expensive. Generally you'll be able to drive such acutators like any other DC Motor or stepper.

    Its just a question of how much you can spend on actuators and motor drivers.

    You can realize heave with 3 actuators. If you would read through the DIY Simulators section you would find EvanF sim seat.
    Perhaps that the setup you mentioned...


    ego
  13. Alle

    Alle Member

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    I have red the EvanF sim seat and it looks good.
    My idea is more or less the same, but using electric cylinder instead of DC motors and without the big spring in the bottom of the cockpit.

    I will start to develop the frame now and then i will search for electric cilinders ( cheap I hope ;-))

    In the meanwhile it could be interesting for me to know if Is it possible to simulate with n°3 electrical cilinders G effects, shakes and bumps all togheter combining them with software and then reproducing them on the cockpit with the electric cylinders.

    Kind regards...and thanks for your ansers....

    Alle
  14. tronicgr

    tronicgr

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    Hi Alle,

    In my oppinion you should first determine what electric cylinders you are going to use and then build your frame around it. I haven't seen any cheap electric cylinders that are fast too for your use. That's why I invented my own linear motion system (with car wiper motors).

    Using a third actuator will benefit you only if its motion is cooperated with the other two to provide heave (aka g-force simulation). And you have to embbed in the controller the coordinated motion of the three actuators in order to produce x,y (roll and pitch) and heave. This way is implenented the motion on the expensive force dynamics 301...

    Evanf is trying to do something like this but since he has not very strong motors, he is using the center spring to absorb much of the weight of the platform and the operator on it.

    I might try hard coding such 3dof cooperated motion in my new controller but I'll have to relay on your (and Evanf's) results to get it work right...


    Regards, Thanos
  15. Alle

    Alle Member

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    Thanx Thanos,

    this is what I was searching for.
    Now I will search for an adequate electrical cylinder (prestations/cost).
    If I will not find it, I will switch to a DC motors.

    After this I will develop the frame of the motion simulator.

    In the meanwhile I'm improving my knowledge about motion simulator that will help me to continue in this project.

    Regards,
    Alle
  16. Alle

    Alle Member

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    Hi all,

    I’m trying to continue with my project.
    I have red a lot of posts and I have concluded that for me, at the moment, the FR*X like solution is the best option. So I will continue my project in this direction.

    I have a little question regarding the electrical actuators.

    Do you think that it is better to use a stepper motor&controller or a servomotor&controller for a FRE*X like solution?

    In my opinion it is better a stepper motor. This solution has better performances when I need to change the direction of the motor (fast response).

    My Idea is to use FE*TO electric actuator. (I can find them at work)
    - Electric cylinder : DNCE-32-BS-10-Q
    Piston road thread: M10x1,25
    Design with ball screw
    Lead screw pitch: 10 mm/rev (higher is only for a bigger piston road thread)

    [​IMG]

    - motor MTRE-ST-42-48S-AB

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    Do you think that it can work or it is better to switch to:
    - another cylinder type?
    - Another stepper motor type?
    - Servomotor?

    Regards,
    Alle
  17. Alle

    Alle Member

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    Any idea if it can works?

    Regards,
    Alle