Step by Step... approaching to Thanos work.

Hi!...

First of all, this place is really, really inspiring... but a little overwhelming too! There's too much info flying around, and although it's a pleasure to follow how you guys while ending the differents projects, much of the time the topics become a little confusing to the begginers like me.

I think we (the very begginers) could do some kind of walkthru, step by step, from easiest to hardest work, in order to keep our mind tidy and to let us be focused on every design level (From hardware to software). Sometimes it's easier to see a TODO list rather than schematics... at least and the entrance door.

After seeing and reading this forum during the nights (son and wife sleeping, dogs and a cat too), i decided that thano's sim seems to be as big enough for my home space as very well documented to try out. Thank you for all the info on a non free world like this. You are awesome!

For now, after donate some money to the Joyrider guys (perfect job with the manuals), and recolecting some prices on local dealers, i'm prepared to begin this journey. What i need to know, far more than how to do, it's maybe what to do... seems very silly, but by my experience, a good guidence could be the difference between finishing a project or let it die.

I really need to know if this info is up to date or something belongs to the past... becouse upgrades comes very fast.

1st Step:
The cockpit.
As Thanos wrote, it's almost the same as the Joyrider... just modifing the diameter of the pipes 2cm to hold the weigth. I've ordered most of the pipes already.

2nd Step:
The hardware that moves the cockpit.
Although Thanos and everybody are moving to AC motors, for me i think the easier is to follow the way is written... so DC motors are good enough. The car windshield wiper motors still seems a good move? I'll try to find some of them on the junkyard near my home...
The motors needs something that controls them... an actuator. Here's a have a big question regarding the different versions of thanos' topics:
We need a H-Bridge to drive the motors. Which one is last version of the mosfet H Bridge??? is it still a good move?
Then we need a controller for those mosfets... Which is the last version of the AVR controller??? is still a good move?
On Thanos website i think the info it's a little outdated (He talks about the HB-25 instead of the RN-VN2, and thus, the Basicstamp...) But it's a valuable info about the world of sims... thanx again for it, thanos.

Once the H-bridge is done, and the AVR controller is connected to the PC... the really hard work of tune everthing begins, always with the X-sim soft.

Am i forgetting something important? Becouse I really need to see the whole picture... My wife still asking me to quit this idea :no:

Hope someone in this forum could guide me just a little... i know there are some FAQs and everything is on the topics, and there is where i'm going to look for the answers.

For now i'm just asking for the big pieces... on time i will jump to them specifically.

Regards and sorry about this long spanish-english post!!!
I will try to keep this post as updated as i can... maybe someone new could find it interesting.
Knob.

Hi!!!!...

Things moving on... slowly, but learning on every step.

What i know up to date, so far:
The Tronics (Thanos) site for the project is a little outdated... the AMC, the Bridge-H and some others components have evolved. For the electronic side it's far better to read this forums.

The mega post Tronic's AMC motor motion-controller with pwm/servo output is a must read. Not only the first post, but the whole 50 pages.
Those pages contains the basics of this project, becouse the AMC is what will control everything!

For me, the most important pages of the topic are:
Page 28 -> Talk about the part list you will need. There's a lists (in fact, there are 3 different list, as things evolves), but the last one seems to be clear of errors.
Page 43 -> Using FT232R USB instead of max232...
Page 33 -> The very last AMC version and layouts... along with the manual and some videos explaining what the AMC does part by part.
http://www.x-simulator.de/forum/tro...ontroller-with-pwm-servo-output-t559-320.html

You have some ways to get your wiper motors running:
The AMC sends data to the Tronic's DIY dual Mosfet H-bridge_ which can control 2 motors
The AMC sends data to the RN-VN2-DUAL-MOTOR controler, and you can use up to 4 motors using the data ports of the LCD (LCD will not work then)
The AMC sends data to the Dual VNH3SP30 (Pololu). As with the RN-VN2, you could use up to 4 motors disabling the LCD

The Dual Mosfet H-Bridge looks easy enough to try to assemble it, but for me, with the resources i have, i feel more secure using the Pololu... i found it at 50€ (Vat and standar shipping included) for Europe. It's worth the money, i think. In about a week i will receive the Pololu. (i hope so)

There's some differences between the parts Thanos give in the PDF (located at first post), and the last version of the AMC controler, so better read twice the part list, and try to locate every part on the layout before ordering.

I found some of the parts on online shops for Europe, but no one has everything, and the ones who have it, you have to order at least 25 of each... so i think the best is going to your locar dealer. (In Spain, and my city, Madrid, the shop is called Conectrol). As soon as i get all the pieces, i will post my part list and prices.

Differences between the pdf and the final layout: Transistor BC47 (TO-92) has to be 3, not just 1 and some other missing quantities of resistences.
Not very bad, but if you order exactly what the PDF says, you will found yourself looking for the missing parts.

The AMC layout must be converted to a PCB. To do this, you have to do it by your own, or pay a PBC service. In Europe, the cheaper one i knew some time ago is called Olimex. They are from Bulgaria, and ships wolrdwide. The two other ways by your own: With heat transfer, and with UV Exposure.

This last UV Exposure is the method i will use becouse at work we have one... very old, but very fast! Tomorrow morning i will do it.

On the mechanics side, (dealing with the PVCs tubes), after visiting some big markets, i just found some of them. I'm still looking for the tubes Thanos recommended on his instructions. The PVC cut list from Thanos and the Joyrider plans (Europe sizes) are:
D90 means 3 Inches (Very rare on my nearest stores)
D50 means 1.25 inches (Very common on stores... i found it cutted in 2.5m)
D40 means 1 Inch (Very common on stores... i found it cutted in 2.5m)
D75 means 2 inches (Very rare on my nearest stores)

I'l try to have this week all the prices in euros for the PVC tubes, along with pictures of the PCB and all the assembly parts...

Step by step, Regards.
Knob2001

You're right! That's why I am asking him permanently to post an updated version in the X-Sim Wiki.
But he seems to be too busy currently, to work this out.

Regards
Christian

Hi!...

egoexpress, sirnoname, it's a pleasure to meet you after reading so many times your words at this forum.

Building a motion simulator from scratch (in all the meanings) it's a huge project, loaded with questions at crucial times when choosing a wrong way could end messing everything, and thus, making the project really frustating.

What i'm planning to do, rather than document everything, it's to explain the little steps i'm doing with something really well documented before, but a little confused if you didn't follow all the process. I don't want to explain the Thanos work (nobody but himself nows his own job, and he has an active work still here), just the way i'm doing it. I always look for this kind of posts on the projects i choose, like de Police song, i'm walking in your footsteps. (In this case, thanos footsteps)

Tomorrow, if my work let me, i will update some other things, and of course, ask too many questions... digging at topics sometimes don't answer everything.

Regards
knob2001.

:rofl:

Hi!...

Yep, maybe i should change the name of the topic... let me do some work more, becouse right now my project is just some raw pvc and an almost PBC.

Today i spent some time making my own PCB, but the H2O2 was very old and it was just almost water! I realized it too late, and the first PCB died.
Tomorrow i will buy some decent H2O2 and try again... to gain some time, i have done a pre PCB like this:

As things are really small now, there's no problem... let me see what happens when the PVC tubes are cutted and mounted together!!!

Regards
Knob2001

Hehe, I remember when I cut and assembled the joyrider on my mother-in-law's house, and then I transfered it ready to my house and placed it on a corner of the living room... I can't describe you the reaction of my wife but I can tell you that I moved to a bigger house with extra spare play room for that reason after a few months!! :lol:

About my site, yeah I know its a lot neglected but I somehow prefer to post my work here, to be able to have some direct feedback on possible errors or ideas on what's fit better, etc... I'm not good on designing web pages, thats why I choose the simplicity on my web site, with just text, photos and links. And It took me about a month of work to collect all the info, pick and resize the photos, and write some decent text on it.

But adding the info about the AMC1.5 is like building a triple size web site (like the one I currently have). And its a bit overwhelming for me right now as I prefer to dedicate my free time (when I'm home) on new electronic interfaces or testing things. Can you imagine I almost play games only when I have to test some interface to them?

RaceRay is right, all the information is there, it just must be transfered to the X-sim Wiki as tutorial by someone. Then it can be easier for me to edit it later if needed.

Best Regards, Thanos

.

Hi Knob2001.

If you can't find the ATmega8535 16PI you can use ATmega644 20PI too if you want.
I have posted a firmware for this microcontroller, that is pin to pin compatible to the ATmega8535!

Wow!! You have garage!!!!!!! Here in Athens, having a garage is luxury. I often lose hours, searching for a parking on the streets around my house!!!! :lol: I guess you wife will be disappointed if you leave the car on the garage alley??!!

Regards, Thanos

Hi!...

Some movement here yesterday and today...

After waiting for the PVCs tubes too much, i've just went to a industrial shop a little far away from my home and i brought all the thickest tubes.
The tubes where cutted at 3 meters, so in order to put them inside my car a had to cut all the tubes at least to the minimun dimension Joyrider pdf's said.
I have a fantastic :clap: 81,50€ PVC tubes at my garage, along with nearly 55 90º, 45º and T conectors. The price for the whole pack (different shops, but same prices), i think is quite cheap. The funny moment was how the man at the shop looked at me when he saw the joyrider schematics while i was cutting the tubes.
Anyway: 81,50€ Total price of PVC.
2 D90 3m PVC Category B. 6 meters total. (the thickest thay have)
2 D40 3m PVC Category B. 6 meters total.
2 D50 3m PVC Category B. 6 meters total.
4 D75 3m PVC Category B. 12 meters total
And all the connectors: About 54 of different sizes. Sizes and shapes on the Joyrider Plans. They cost 14€ by paypal and they sends you the PDF in minutes, it's worth of it, so please, support your local motion-simulator-diy-designer!!!

On the electronic side:
I've spend some hours drilling and soldering my fingers :hi: This is the result after a hard work on a sunday:


You will see some different things about the Tronic's pictures as i didn't find the exactly componets. The ATMEGA-8535PI is out of catalog in Spain... and the 644 is nearly the same, at least in the mayor shops i now.
I found it on a German store called DARISUS, and a i've ordered a couple of them for 20€ shipping and VAT included. It's not cheap, but who said it will be easy? They told me tomorrow or in a couple of days i will have it at my home. I ordered the 8535PU which is the same of the PI but with the regulation of ORHs and something GREEN (enviromental love) stuff. The rest of the models are for SMC, so be carefull when you order that.

The blue capacitors near the DB9 are the 1n2f (in my case 1n5f)... i will see if they eat all the noise from my com cable.

The pololu came, but... it was my fault, and i ordered the 3H instead de 2H... and i will send it back, becouse the 3H doesn't work with current sense, and doesn't allow high frequencies. That happens when you order something at 03:00AM... keep focus, man, otherwise you will pay double for everything! :

Christmas is coming, and i don't know how much free time i will have, but i'm learning a lot about this project... stay tuned for more news!!!!!

Btw, i've found this seat:


150€ second hand... looks perfect (and i even love the color). I will try to drop the price a little...

Yep, you're right. In Spain you have to live at least at 15km from the city to have a garage, and that means a lot of traffic jams everyday, more gas per month... but you have a damm big garage under your home! i used to live in the center of Madrid so i understand you very, very well.
I have a wonderfull wife: today she told me that i can use the basement for all my stuff. So tomorrow night we will move all the basement stuff to the garage, the PVC to the basement, and the car... yep, we have a space problem with the car.

Merry christmas for everyone
knob2001

Have you seen this one? Seems another way of doing a 4DOF, isn't?

Hi!!!

Some updates for this brand new 2009:

PVC Hardware side:

If you are following the joyrider plans, sooner or later you will need to buy the pipes and connectors. I had a problem with the thick connectors T, 45º and 90º
When you pass the limit of 50mm diamenter, it's very common in spain to use Female-Male connectors, instead of the Female-Female the joyrider plans use, as long as Thanos used too.
This is in fact due to the preassure the pipes must resist (someone told me about) Then you have two different choices:
1. The 75mm and 90mm connectors (T, 45º,90º) Female-Female are 3-4 times more expensive than the Female-Male normal ones, and 3-4 times thicker too. We are talking about 150€ in total, more or less.
PRO: Exactly what Joyrider plans says.
CONS: Expensive. Difficult to find in local dealers. You must join the connectors with 7mm tubes (a lot of them... be ready to cut and cut)

2. Use the normal ones (not too light, remember they must hold your body and PC stuff) Female-Male, and buy some Female-Female straight connectors. Then remember to cut 4.5mm from your original pipes to match the lengh of the connector.
PRO: No use of those 7mm little tubes. Only straight connector for one side. Cheaper but thiner.
CONS: Cut 4.5mm anywhere you add a Straigh connector.

In this crisis time i had to choose the 2nd option. I had already brought the Female-Male connectors so i would loose the money.

Talking about the screws, remember that you can't add a Bolt and nut becouse the pipe is too narrow and long to let your hand reach the other part of the bolt.
Maybe it's a stupid tip... anyway, since i've choosen the straight connectors, i'm using the screws for the long pipes, and everywhere i can, bolts and nuts.

Let me put some pictures tomorrow of all of this...

Hardware Electronic:
I've finally received the Pololu and the ATmega, the LCD is still missing... i'll try to buy this week. The good news for me is that my father doesn't need a discharged but new battery car. Raw 12v for me!!!

Happy new year 2009 to everybody...

Ah, this is next sim i'll build... but first i think i need to talk to my wife. :mug1:

Hi!...

Let's do some update here:

Hardware:
I'm finnishing the joyrider... a lot of bolts!!! I haven't found the caster wheels on my local stores, so i'll search it on the mayor ones.

This is what i was talking on the last post about the male-female conectors:


If you choose the male-female then you will need a female-female connector. Just be carefull to note that when you are planning in the store the things to buy.

This is the work so far...



On the electronic side:
I have solded some wires here and there... i just need the LCD to finnish it:



More news tomorrow...

Regards
Oscar

Hi!...

Slow movements... work & family & friends : keep me away from my cave...

I've been trying to fit the parts of the joyrider. Not an easy thing. I found that some pipes were not very well sized, so i had to re-cut some. I don't really know why, becouse on the paper everything was right, but on real life...

I found the casters wheels, or at least, the casters i think match more or less the one joyrider plans says. Of course, they have a double bearing, and i hope don't break once i step into the joyrider :hi:

Have you tried to bend metal with your hands? That's what i tried, and fail, of course. I should have called Bender (futurama best character, btw). It was nearly impossible to bend a sigle milimeter. Luckly at work i have some heavy weapons, and this is what i used to bend those casters:


After doing that to all, this is the result so far:


Right now i have some problems to solve, and all of them are finding stuff.
An advice: :biw: In my city, it was impossible to find the pipe holding brackets for 40mm size. It appears to be something standard not to use more than 35mm. So... i will post some pictures tomorrow, but i had to solve it doing this:

What it's complety impossible to find is the white roller guide Thanos use on his tutorial. I just found a lot of roller guides, but a heavy ones, and everybody told me i'm crazy if i want to drill holes thru them.
: becouse i don't know any alternative.

I have at home all the pre drilled stuff to start placing the motors around the joyrider... so i will put some pictures of all of that tomorrow, as long of the nuts & bolts i'm using.


After the joyrider, i focused on the LCD, which is not the HD44780 exactly, but a compatible. The pins seems to have the same layout, and everything seems quite similar. I have attached to the Pololu two heat coolers,and a fan, just to be sure things stays on normal.


And that's enough for the last days...

Best regards.
knob2001

The white pulleys are made from solid 5mm steel with white paint to save from rust... I almost burned my electric drill oppening those holes. I also tried to use a Ridgid hole saw arbor to remove its unused center hole bump, but I after a while I had to quit trying. As you can see on the photo, the mark of the saw is still there!!





Regards, Thanos

You can try using come metal ribbon holder, or whatever its named of... Here a photo of it:



Just cut it in any size you want! And if you think its not strong enough, you can use two pieces together... :thbup:


Regards, Thanos

Hi!...

This is the way i solved the pipe holder problem: I found on the last store of my city a 39mm metal holder with 2 holes on each side. It was built for outside wood houses (at least is what the man of the store told me twice). It's a hell thicker than what we need, but i feel a little safer using them...

As the holes of the caster wheel don't match with the ones on the holder, and that 39mm are not 40mm... i needed to:
Fist, attach strongly the caster wheel onto a metal plate.
Second, add some washers between the metal plate and the holder to let the pipe fits inside. (i just need 2 washers on each hole)
And here is the result:


Right now i have a question regarding the joyrider plans... If you think (moderators) this question should be asked on tronics post, i will do it. I think it could be here to let my progress be on the same post. Anyway...
i have my backet ready to be mounted as long as two different parts of pipes. (If you have the joyrider plans you will know what 2 parts i'm talking about)...
I don't really know how to find the gravity center of the whole cockpick thing. This is the tronicGr at Athens Digital Week ... (what a headache just thinking to move that from your home to there...)


Thank you one time more.
Regards.
Knob2001

Hi Oscar,

I guess, these is no easy way of finding the GC, since the cockpit is a little asymmetrical, and your material might be more heavy or light. I'd suggest securing the seat first, in a angle that will be comfortable to sit in while providing enough space for you legs. In the calculations take in mind that extra space that is needed for the pedals and their angle in relation to the seat.

Then, you should add the LCD and the controls, prior installing any pulley drives and cables. If it balanced enough, the it should stay level with you inside it, on both pitch an bank axis. If not, you know what to adjust...

Best Regards, Thanos

Thank you, thanos...

So, if i've understood right, i have to add all the stuff (seat + LCD + whatever control i use) before mounting it to the main structure? :? Sounds something very heavy to lift it later... isn't?

As long as i saw all your photos, and seeing my bucket pretty much similiar as the one you used, and my angles will be not very far from you... i will try what you say, although i'm tempted to mount it just to see how it moves... i really need to see some mechanical movement (at least to show something to my wife, who keeps asking me when in-the-name-of-god that weird stuff i'm buiding will do something more than just noise)

Are you saying that my body will be the counterweigth, and the structure must remain at level even without the force of the motors? Mmm... it will be difficult since right now i have some degrees out of level at banking. (I saw you had more or less the same degress as mine on one of your early pictures of your site)
It's really a big help to have your pictures and listening your words...
Just a last minute question... have you use any nut and bolt to join both parts apart from the one needed at the crossed section? (I mean, joining with bolts the zone nearly at your shoes level, where the A part is being stoped by the B part) or maybe you use the pre-drilled metal to fine tune the GC?

I will show you some pictures of this process tomorrow since i think it is the first and i think the only key step not very easy to accomplish quickly without a big guide by experience....

Thank you again and sorry about asking for help too many times...

Regards
knob2001