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SimuKit - DIY or Commercial?

Discussion in 'Forum and Website' started by momoclic, Jan 3, 2018.

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  1. momoclic

    momoclic Active Member

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    I do not understand !

    Simukit does not sell simulator to assemble, they sell motors and electronic components retail or kit
    This allows the designer to build his own simulator according to his own plans. Simukit did not provide any plans.
    In short, this is strictly the same as buying these engines from a dealer and his electronics from another.
    The design of the @Blackflam simulator is totally original and totally out of his thinking and his work, Simukit having provided only the engine.

    So why classify it in the section "Commercial", no one conceives its engines and few are those who create their electronics ...

    Note that I have no connection whatsoever with Simukit.

    Je ne comprends pas !

    Simukit ne vend pas des simulateurs à assembler, ils vendent moteurs et composants électroniques au détail ou en kit.
    Cela permet au concepteur de réaliser son propre simulateur selon ses propres plans. Simukit ne fourni aucun plan.
    En résumé cela revient strictement au même qu'acheter ses moteurs chez un revendeur et son électronique chez un autre.
    La conception du simulateur de @Blackflam est totalement originale et sort totalement de sa reflexion et de son travail, Simukit n'ayant fourni que la motorisation.

    Alors pourquoi le classer dans la section "Commerciale", personne ne conçoit ses moteurs et rares sont ceux qui créent leur électronique ...
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Just a correction, Simukit does sell simulators: https://simukit.com/accueil/54-kit-sk1.html

    And Simukits sell parts for DIY.

    In what way is this different from other commercial competitors, say Simexperience?

    Simexperience sells parts so you can DIY: http://simxperience.com/en-us/products/accessories/diyaccessories.aspx

    Sim staged kits: http://simxperience.com/en-us/products/motionsimulatorkits.aspx

    And complete rigs: http://simxperience.com/en-us/products/completesimulators/stage5racingsimulator.aspx
  3. francois38200

    francois38200 Member

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    so all the people who use actuators are in the commercial section ? and if the shop who sell them are the chipest an sell a complet rig we must go to an most expensive shop to be in a DIY section ? , in france if you want to create your own dynamique rig the best option is a kit of simukit, because a lot of people don't speak an read english, so navigate and find all of piece a the good price and shipment is at the end most expansive than buy a kit at simukit.
  4. momoclic

    momoclic Active Member

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    Exact @Norbeast, it's recent!

    But @Blackflam uses only engines and electronic cards from home.
    When I created my subject, at the time he sold only engines and electronic components the rest being my only design, it was classified my topic in "commercial" and I was shocked ...
    I find it a shame, my goal being to propose a method of manufacture and not to promote Simukit.
    At the time never tried to communicate by email but I was never answered ...

    https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...lator-building-tutorial-3dof-heave-axis.9249/

    To note Simukit is a Belgian company.

    Exact @Norbeast, c'est récent !

    Mais @Blackflam n'utilise que moteurs et cartes électronique de chez eux.
    Quant j'ai créé mon sujet, à l'époque il ne vendait que moteurs et composants électronique le reste étant de ma seule conception, on a classé mon sujet en "commercial" et j'en ai été choqué...
    Je trouve ça dommage, mon but étant de proposer une méthode de fabrication et non de promouvoir Simukit.
    A l'époque jamais essayé de communiquer par email mais on ne m'a jamais répondu ...

    A noter Simukit est une société Belge.
  5. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    @Pit can you please move the discussion about what constitutes commercial out of @Blackflam's thread, so it can continue elsewhere rather than hijack a member's thread.
  6. Wanegain

    Wanegain Active Member

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    Yes and no.

    I agree with you @noorbeast for SK1 or SK3 which can be considered as commercial products.
    But people which are buying classic kits must be in DIY section. We are not providing sketches, schemas or any explanations, we just say go to pcshm for french section and xsimulator for SimTools and english forum.
    They buy exactly the same thing as anyone in the DIY section: motors, electronic cards, potentiometers, power supply, etc... They just buy all these parts in the same place!
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Can you please move the commercial discussion to it's own thread please @Pit.
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  8. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    Sorry for chiming in lately, I was very busy today and out of home, i opened a new thread now.
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  9. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    What difference does it make if your thread is considered commercial or diy except for receiving a free Simtools diy license? That decision is strictly up to Simtools author yobuddy regardless and has nothing to do with how this websites moderators classify threads unless he views it the same way.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  10. MarkusB

    MarkusB Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    I can imagine several reasons. Here are just 2 examples:

    1. Members looking for ideas or inspirations for their own DIY project will probably browse the DIY threads rather than the commercial ones.
    2. DIY members may want to find recognition and acknolegement for their achievements, which they will probably not get if their project is considered commercial.
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  11. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    Boohoo! :( It's the moderators discretion.
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  12. momoclic

    momoclic Active Member

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    No problem ;)

    I think the same thing as @Wanegain, in the case of @Blackflam :
    https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/my-2-dof-simukit-project.11408/

    as in my case :
    https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...lator-building-tutorial-3dof-heave-axis.9249/

    The only difference is that by buying some components (engines and electronics at Simukit, Thrustmaster steering wheel and Fanatec crankset, Blackflam made everything else) we made the mistake of quoting the supplier and he did not even put link to Simukit!
    There are many topics that gives us a link to a provider and as far as these topics are not moved in the "commercial" ...

    When I created my subject the goal was to share my experience and in no way did I receive any support or help from Simukit.What I regret the most is that the movement of the subject was made without warning me and that we did not respond to my requests.I propose to redo my subject in the non-commercial part but erase all references to Simukit. The aim of this project is the realization, at low cost and with a minimum of technical means, of a 3DOF simulator. There is also presented alternative solutions to the components offered by Simukit.

    Thank you for the explanations that clarify the policy of the site on the subject said "commercial".
  13. MarkusB

    MarkusB Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    Even after reading your post several times, it didn’t reveal its sense to me.

    I just tried to answer your question by giving you potential reasons why it may be relevant for members where their threads are located. No offense.
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  14. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    No offense taken and you did made valid points. :)

    And I meant no offense either but to explain what I said Boohoo means, "to sob or pretend to sob noisily", and discretion means, "the power or right to decide or act according to one's own judgment". And my question was actually a rhetorical one meaning, "A rhetorical question is a figure of speech in the form of a question that is asked to make a point rather than to elicit an answer". But thank you for your answers regardless. Also I've disagreed with moderators judgment at times myself. :p
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  15. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    In the end it is @RaceRay who gets to make decisions about Xsimulator.com and @yobuddy who determines matters related to @SimTools.

    Personally though I do think there is a significant difference between a motion sim company that targets motion sim builders as their core market and other companies that sell electrical components. And that difference is commercial access to and benefit from the target market group.

    I am going to make what I consider is a reasonable assumption @Wanegain, that is that you sell parts and sims to motion sim enthusiasts at a profit and the more that are sold the greater that profit. In my view that is commercial and having your product use showcased for free, directly to your core target market, is of financial benefit to yourself. I think that very different to general electronic outlets, where DIY motion sim building would be a diminutive part of their sales base and profit, to the point where they would not bother to bundle components for that market or seek to directly have their products promoted for free in DIY threads.

    The other aspect to consider is that members here should have the right to know if a motion sim company benefits from kit sales, because not providing "sketches, schemas or any explanations" offsets support to the community, rather than SimuKit. In corporate speak others providing free product promotion, and product support/advice for free, is externalizing costs, which is of benefit to companies that can do it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_externalizing

    But as I said it is @RaceRay and @yobuddy who get to decide, the rest of us are free to spruke whatever our particular views may be and these just happen to be mine.
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  16. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    Thank you @noorbeast for trying to clarify the difference between diy and commercial by explaining the way how we handle the rules of our community. Anyway we will discuss this issue internally, if we should change the rules based on the arguments in this thread.
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  17. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    Hey guys, we discussed it and we came to a decision not to change our rules in terms of DIY or commercial.

    SimuKit, even if they sell only parts, is a motion simulator business company, which benefits from threads where their hardware is used even under the aspect of DIY. While this point can be discussed ever and ever there is no doubt when it comes to supporting these components. To this end, we are splitting projects into commercial and non commercial ones for giving the appropriate support.

    Thank you for your understanding.
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