1. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Download Package Now!
  2. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  3. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant here. Do not following these rules will lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.

Seattime's Sims

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by SeatTime, Mar 8, 2018.

  1. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    542
    Location:
    Lake Ariel, Pennsylvania
    Balance:
    3,100Coins
    Ratings:
    +230 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    Thanks for posting! I'm excited to hear about your sway/surge results
  2. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,315
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,023Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,611 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Of interest (well to me anyway) is the difference between a race seat and Fighter Jet seat. You sit very much on top of a fighter jet seat with no support apart from your harness. A good simulation would obviously have to take this into account. I know before I fitted a racing harness to my trackday car, I had to brace with my knees to stabilize myself through corners.

    Race Car Seat.jpg
    Fighter Jet seat.jpg
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,315
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,023Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,611 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Added the mechanisms for surge and sway into the seat base. Likely won't be using this much in operation.

    Seat Base Sway_Surge function 1.jpg Seat Base Sway_Surge function 2.jpg
    • Like Like x 1
  4. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,315
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,023Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,611 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    @Trip Rodriguez : Re comfort - I'm using 15mm thick medium density rubber foam over my paddles (couple of pages back when I upgraded). It's not too soft so you sink to the metal paddles and not too hard so it will grip you and also be comfortable.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Che Franklin

    Che Franklin im alot brighter than i look.. Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2019
    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Cape Cod Ma USA
    Balance:
    94Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, Arduino
    WOW Thats Epic YOU got some Talent..
  6. Diving Delica

    Diving Delica New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2019
    Messages:
    21
    Occupation:
    Commercial Diver
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Balance:
    179Coins
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    My god seattime when do you get time to sleep...lol
    This site blows my mine. Haven't even got my 6dof running yet and already thinking of a G seat. There goes the next 2 years
  7. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,315
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,023Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,611 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    My friends also cannot believe that I practice or play competition sport every day, dance three times a week, go to the Gym 5 times a week, while at the same time they will be siting down having a beer and betting on the horses/poker machines (often watching me practice :p)- all the time saying they are too busy to get real things done :rolleyes:. You would be surprised what you are able to get done when you distance yourself from all these 'things' that the modern world has given us + phones, Facebook, Instagram and all the other electronic applications that can easily fill your day while productively giving nothing back. Not saying to give up on them all together, but very much limit your time, as they can become addictive and are not good for your health, mental or physical. Sorry, just me ranting on the so called modern 'busy' world..
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,315
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,023Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,611 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Anyway, after taking off my superman suit - back to my build.:). The completion of the bottom seat system has certainly been challenging - I am modifying as I go, so many different dependencies, all in a small/tight package, it is certainly not as straight forward as building a 6DOF.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  9. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    542
    Location:
    Lake Ariel, Pennsylvania
    Balance:
    3,100Coins
    Ratings:
    +230 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    I am looking forward to hearing about what you learn with the seat bottom surge and sway experiment. You don't seem super optimistic about it, but it seems to me like that could have some real potential.

    Have you ever experimented with seat back heave? I think that's got some possibilities too, though maybe more for flying than racing.

    What you said about time is absolutely true, and is extremely similar to my response when my friends exclaim that they don't know where I get the money while they buy cigarettes, liquor, energy drinks, beef jerky etc.
  10. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,315
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,023Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,611 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    I have tried lots of different setups and as long as your getting some differential movement vertically with the seat back, its irrelevant how you do it, although I think moving the bottom part of the seat better simulates you being pushed into your seat with gravity which is actually what happens in real life. Note with this system that I am also trying to simulated the correct differential with stationary controls items Eg. steering wheel/joystick/throttle etc like you would feel in real life with different forces. Unfortunately often you don't know how successful you will be until you try it - I am although quietly confident.
  11. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    542
    Location:
    Lake Ariel, Pennsylvania
    Balance:
    3,100Coins
    Ratings:
    +230 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    That concept of having the correct differential with the controls has been at the forefront of my mind thanks entirely to this thread. =)
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  12. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,315
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,023Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,611 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Testing is progressing well, as the system is only using forces Ie. heave, sway and surge (really something that only works well in VR), the movements are so smooth, with no odd secondary movements :). Still making modifications and only using three actuators at the moment to drive the full system. Will add more if further tests deems it necessary.
    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  13. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,315
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,023Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,611 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    I was using some ball transfers that I purchased locally for the seat bottom parasitics and unfortunately they ended up not being up to the task. Have ordered in ones hopefully more suitable, but they will take some time for them to arrive. From testing, I am also going to add in some adjustable (for different sized drivers) side 'pads' out from the capsule to give a better sway feel.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    542
    Location:
    Lake Ariel, Pennsylvania
    Balance:
    3,100Coins
    Ratings:
    +230 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    If you don't mind linking the parts you ordered I'd like to see what you used. =)
  15. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,315
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,023Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,611 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Added one adjustable side bolster. This enables larger side loads (sway Gs) to be generated then what is normally possible with paddles alone.

    Adjustable side bolsters.jpg
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    542
    Location:
    Lake Ariel, Pennsylvania
    Balance:
    3,100Coins
    Ratings:
    +230 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    Interesting. Would your elbow be on top of that like an armrest or outboard of it?

    Would you be willing to share your mechanism for applying motor effort to the seat bottom heave panel? A human is a pretty heavy load to be trying to push up a couple inches, I'd expect it to require something fairly beefy.

    (Edit for clarification: I'm just talking about the linkage from the linear actuator in the back to the bottom of the seat. An MS paint drawing would suffice)

    I'd have guessed some kind of bellcrank setup but the angle of the part coming off the actuator is making me think otherwise.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  17. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,315
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,023Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,611 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    My elbow is well above the bolster when the seat is at center heave. The heave arm is a 'second class lever', 1:2.6 ratio (so it amplifies the torque by 2.6). All joints (including were it attaches to the seat base) are either a ball, universal, or hinge joint (including the actuator itself) and each joint attachment point can be adjusted to make it easier to fit and allow for any possible changes. There is also rubber in certain areas. So it all ends up being not just a simple drive arm (pictures were easier :)).

    Second class lever calculations:

    EL=ba

    Explanation:
    Effort-load-fulcrum
    a: distance between effort and fulcrum
    b:distance between load and fulcrum
    E:Effort
    L:Load
    E⋅a=L⋅b
    EL=ba


    Heave arm 1.jpg
    Heave arm 2.jpg
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  18. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    542
    Location:
    Lake Ariel, Pennsylvania
    Balance:
    3,100Coins
    Ratings:
    +230 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    Awesome, thanks! As I suspected, simpler than anything I would likely have conceived of. I appreciate the written information just as much as the photos, thanks for taking the time SeatTime.
  19. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,315
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,023Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,611 / 29 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    So I have done some more testing and I like way the sway rails are working and their direct effect with the side bolsters (now have two more fitted around my ribs), they have a much better 'natural' pressure feel then just the paddles. Actually the paddles in the seat base are great for heave, but I feel they can give a bit of a false cue for sway as they tend to slightly lift/tilt your body in the wrong direction. Will be changing the parasitic mechanics so that the paddles either do not lift me very much for sway, or maybe even slightly in the opposite direction, but have a good effect for heave. Seat is coming out again to have some aluminium parts changed to steel (not strong enough) and to add in other parts to support the torso vest and thigh pressure systems.
    • Like Like x 4
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
  20. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    542
    Location:
    Lake Ariel, Pennsylvania
    Balance:
    3,100Coins
    Ratings:
    +230 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    I now know exactly what you meant when you were talking about things getting a little crazy when you were implementing the surge and sway to the bottom of the seat! I'd be interested in anything you might wish to share on that topic. I think I've figured out my own different system.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019 at 11:34