1. Hundreds of coffees, endless nights of debugging and coding, and countless feedback by our beta testers led to this new major release. SimTools 2.4 is probably the version with the most upgrades and improvements in a single release ever. Look at everything Dustin has included:
    SimTools 2.4 all features.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Download Package Now!
  3. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  4. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant here. Do not following these rules will lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.

Rear Traction Loss Difference between AC and ACC

Discussion in 'Commercial Simulators and Peripherie' started by adamcyan1624, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. adamcyan1624

    adamcyan1624 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Balance:
    133Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    Hi,

    I just got a DOF Reality H3 this week, and immediately jumped into my favorite AC. However, I was a little disappointed that the rear traction loss effect doesn’t really ‘kick my ass’. I tested the motor alone in SimTools and apparently it is capable of giving me the kick. A hour ago I moved to testing ACC with the motion. Rear traction loss effect really started to shine there.

    So my question is that is this a problem that can be solved by tuning the game settings/profile in SimTools? And I s there any difference in the motion code for AC vs. ACC (using different outputs from the games to simulate the effect)?

    Thanks everyone!
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    12,979
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    98,890Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,274 / 40 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
  3. adamcyan1624

    adamcyan1624 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Balance:
    133Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    12,979
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    98,890Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,274 / 40 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
  5. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,757
    Occupation:
    Owner/Operator- Moxleys Rantals
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
    Balance:
    19,473Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,461 / 29 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    AC and ACC are quite different in how the Data is Crunched with the Algorithm and then outputted to Simtools.

    While AC is Good in general and really good Above the limit (drifting/High Slip Angles in the +16-18 Range) ACC has a Very Very Accurate and linear track of the TL Axis Up to and At the Amount of slip angle a GT3 Can achieve**GT3's Aint Drift monsters after all eh** So imo its likely a Different point of data that's being used *or multiple points* on ACC with the new Physics models ect ect...i haven't queried Aris on it, As its rather moot, but could drop a question in Discord.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. adamcyan1624

    adamcyan1624 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Balance:
    133Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    Cool!
    I’m new to SimTools and still studying how it works. But is it possible for a common user like me to change the code that specifies what data to use from a game (for example AC) to simulate the rear traction loss effect? I’m guessing the code is within the game plugin files, correct?
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    12,979
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    98,890Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,274 / 40 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    You can write your own plugin: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...lugin-for-simtools-2-0-api-documentation.131/

    Or do you mean how to tweak a motion profile in SimTools: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/steps-to-create-a-motion-profile.228/

    Which of course can include tweaking traction loss behaviour: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/traction-loss-in-simtools.175/
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  8. adamcyan1624

    adamcyan1624 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Balance:
    133Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    Thanks a lot!
    I was intended to write my own plugin for Assetto Corsa, but it seems that a lot can be done in tuning center. I’ll definitely try it first.
    One more question for plugin writing though, which example suits AC best? UDP, memory mapping, memory hook, special dll, or simply AC’s own data acquisition method?
  9. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    12,979
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    98,890Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,274 / 40 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    I think AC has Shared Memory and provides telemetry, but @value1 would know for sure.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. adamcyan1624

    adamcyan1624 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Balance:
    133Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    Tuning max/min simply did the magic! Thanks for the help! If @value1 can guide me a little on AC plugin writing, I’d appreciate a lot.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,103
    Location:
    Zug, Switzerland
    Balance:
    6,605Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,026 / 11 / -1
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Joyrider
  12. adamcyan1624

    adamcyan1624 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Balance:
    133Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
  13. adamcyan1624

    adamcyan1624 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Balance:
    133Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    I checked AC API documentation and did not find physics variables like tire slip angles or oversteer factor, which do show up in AC developer app - telemetry. So is the documentation listing every physics variable we can use? Is it possible to get for example tire slip angles from AC shared memory if you use the correct names?

    Another question for you as you are the developer of AC plugin. Is there any info regarding the difference between Extra 1 - Traction Loss LV and Extra 2 - Traction Loss V18? I tried both but did not feel much difference.
  14. adamcyan1624

    adamcyan1624 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Balance:
    133Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    I still have a question regarding motion profile which I did not find a definite answer in either the link above or the official SimTools manual. For each dof, what does -50 ~ 50 really mean? Does it mean 50% ~ 150% of something? And what is this something? Is it the Max/Min value? For example, in tuning center, I put +/- 10 for Extra 1 - Traction Loss. Then if I change it to -50 in the profile editor, does it mean the max/min value now actually becomes +/- 15? Same way, does 50 in the profile editor mean +/- 5 max/min value?
  15. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    12,979
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    98,890Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,274 / 40 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    The Axis Assignment is the total range of the axis. But when there are multiple axis assigned to a DOF, say on a 2DOF rig, it can be fudged a bit and hence be over 100% in total, as not all axis will likely be maxed out at the same time.

    Max/Min in the Tuning Center is really about the range the game data is providing, see @yobuddy's summary here: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/graphic-simtools-parameter-adjustment.9054/#post-113925
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. adamcyan1624

    adamcyan1624 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Balance:
    133Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    Thanks for your explanation. So far actually I’ve come to understand both axis assignment and max/min setting quite well. Giving more percentage to Pitch in axis assignment lets me feel the road inclination change more obviously at Nordschleife, while decreasing the max/min values for Rear Traction Loss makes my butt get kicked quicker and harder. I’m pretty satisfied with them.
    However, I still wonder what motion profile editor does. For each dof there is a scroll bar to change between -50 and 50. Does it act on axis assignment or max/min setting? Take an easy example of the extra 1 - rear traction loss motion. My axis assignment for it is 100% and max/min is +/- 7 degrees. Now if I edit the game profile and scroll the bar to -50, does it make A) axis assignment become 50% or B) max/min value become +/- 10.5 degrees (=7 * 150%) or C) something else?
  17. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    12,979
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    98,890Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,274 / 40 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    In the Game Manager Profile Editor the Main Level % is like a smoothing effect across all Tuning Center values, so it globally 'softens' the motion. But if you go too far it can introduce lag.

    In the Editor tab of the Profile Editor you can do a similar thing for each axis, and save the result, so you can have a generic motion profile but then make tweaked variations of it for specific cars and/or tracks.
  18. adamcyan1624

    adamcyan1624 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Balance:
    133Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    Thanks for your answer, but it still feels vague to me, just like the SimTools manual. When you said ‘in the editor tab of the profile editor you can do a similar thing for each axis’, for the ‘similar thing’, do you mean the smoothing effect? The main level % can only go down from 100%, so it’s easy to understand that smaller value means more smoothing. But for each axis the scroll bar range is -50 and 50. If -50~0 is smoothing, is 0~50 amplifying then? And what does it amplify, making changes to axis assignment or max/min setting or something else (e.g. amplifying the game output)?
  19. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    12,979
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    98,890Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,274 / 40 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    I mean the effect on that Tuning Center axis value, raising the slider sharpens the effect and lowering softens it.
  20. adamcyan1624

    adamcyan1624 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Balance:
    133Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    Gotcha, thanks!