Noob Questions: Beginning Stages of F1 Rig

Hey X-Sim people,

I've been meaning to improve my sim racing experience for some time and am going to "need" a new rig soon. "Need" meaning my younger brother can have my old DFGT and MDF Rig and I'm building something better.

I was big into karting for 7 years but I am graduating from College in a month and didn't see the costs of karting happening during these first few years out of school (I sold it all ). I've still got a racing bug to itch so I wanted to make a motion rig. I haven't done anything like this, but I'm good with details and have a little bit of patience.

I want to make a formula cockpit that replicates Senna's mp4/7:

So here's what I've put together for a concept. Its pretty simple and involves two motors in the rear with arms, those arms attached to tie-rods connected to the frame of the cockpit. I am going to use the Oculus Rift with it until I can have the space for triple screens. I placed the U-Joint in the draft generally: It may require special placement to get the best effect from the motors. I plan on making the body out of fiberglass and attaching it to the frame with bolts. The rig will be built with an internal frame that supports the equipment and provides rigidity in the area's that require strength; that to come when I get certain details hammered out. Also, I'm planning on incorporating a traction loss movement in the seat, but have yet to decide how this will all structurally fit. Plus I need to get better at SketchUp.




Now my questions:
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Can this sort of motion be more immersive with some fundamental changes? The 6dof formula units are the most impressive I've researched. So my question is, what could I do instead. I'm not as concerned with complexity and cost as I am with keeping this things footprint as small as possible. (This is actually goal number one)

Can anyone share a good resource that provides a good guide on the electronics portion of building a rig? I have an idea of what I need, but I have no idea how it all adds up to a working sim. Also, if anyone has a shopping list that they think is the way to go I'd appreciate the rec.
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I'm sure I'm going to have more questions, but I appreciate these first few lob-balls. Hopefully I can get this thread moving soon in the DIY section. I want to build this properly.
-Kyle

You'll need a lot of time to build the rig. During this time, you can clarify the question of the necessary hardware by reading various threads describing any suggestions. There are numerous solutions in the forum to the different controllers. I use the Arduino UNO3 due to his versatility (12v) and winches.

@Pit,

Thanks for the reply. It is true that this is a process that gets taken one piece at a time. The reason I am trying to learn what I will need is because I want to conceal all the components in the base, and need to know how I need to package the components for the smallest blueprint.

At the moment I'm looking at the trusty SCN6 actuators for the rear, and a SCN5 for the seat mover. I still want to look at more economical options, but these seem to be regarded as the quality choice.

Are there any resources on the dimensions that the actuators/arms need to be attached between the two components? Is this something that is calculated into the programming?

Thanks X-sim people,

As you want to move more than just the seat+driver, I could recommend these http://www.motiondynamics.com.au/worm-drive-motor-12v-24v-200w-180-rpm-20nm-torque.html (or similar as you are not in Oz), with a 50:1 gearbox and this for controlling it http://www.pololu.com/product/1393. This is a well proven strong and simple setup at a lot less money than the SCNs. Have no experience with the SCNs, but they look compact and if this is more important than cost then I would pick the SCN6 to more reliably move the mass of your proposed design. If you search on the site there are some designs which are based on a SCN setup.

With your design you could easily hide a couple of big gear motors like SeatTime linked you to, and the electronics that he linked are about the size of a couple of quarters laying next to each other. A couple of server power supplies could also be hidden easily underneath. With the mentioned motors/controllers and power supplies you could be up and running for less than the cost of one SCN6 actuator.

Great design and I look forward to seeing your progress.

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EDIT: And congratulations on your upcoming graduation!

Further EDIT: There are no X-Sim people here, that is a different website and different motion software

Nice design idea @LikeStig , best run motors at shoulder mount, as high as possible, and make sure the whole thing is balanced properly.
Yes JRKS, for sure and the big worm gear motors.
If shoulder mount is too much headache, mount the motors right at the feet area instead and as far away from the pivot as possible, but also, you would have to mount them high on the front part of the frame.
Yes a 2DOF with screens static in front of you will work. Granted I havent tried a 6DOF (the only ones around are flight sims at $400 per hour), but after 3 years of sitting on 2 DOF full frames of many different designs, after a while, you get that immersion effect of thinking the whole car is moving up and down. The only 4DOF dbox units I also tried were not that inpressive. A slight advantage mostly with heave, but the rest can be gotten from a 2DOF.
@SeatTime , ive played on SCN5 shoulder mount actuators, you get the same result as big worm gears motors. SCN give some tactile vibration like a dbox, but nothing a good bass shaker can fix on a dc motor setup.

So here's where I'm headed,
Thanks @SeatTime for the rec' on the worm-gear motors. Thats the route I will be taking.

@bsft, I've currently been drafting designs with the linkage connected at a lower distance and closer together, as I though it would create a more desirable motion. Do you think the mass of the cockpit with them in this position put too much strain on the motors?

Thanks to @Historiker for his expertise on appropriate Power Supplies per axis of motion.

Moving slowly on this and may not get too much of a start on it until June, but here's what I've been thinking. The traction loss axis is either going to get rethought with a different approach, or be made twice as wide to handle the off balance weight the rig will get.

Oh that diagram tells a different story. Recommend the following: Arms should be driving at the top of the seat as advised by bsft. With that design the seatmover may be difficult to balance. Traction loss should be under the seatmover and motors to remove weight off the seatmover. I chain drove my traction loss to move the added weight (also had a surge table which it had to move) as it does not need to be as reactive as the seatmover. This is mine - a picture tells a thousand words. http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/seattimes-dc-motor-sim.5024/

Uni needs to be under best balance point, where you have it in the diagram is wrong.

Having the joint at the front will cause a hell of a lot of weight on the motors. They'd need to be huge to support the weight and movement. I don't know if this is the case but having the pivot that far forward may well feel quite strange and could contribute to motion sickness as well.

I'm working on a frame design at the minute as well. My traction loss wheels will basically be an inch off the ground under the motors.

I can't contribute to how to build this, but I do have to say, Senna's McLaren would probably be the ultimate racing cockpit. I love the idea.

This is a beautiful idea! Wish you much luck with this project.
But actually the first question I had when I saw your design was where would you put your keyboard and mouse/trackball?

F1 spec simulater

That was great video, I wonder how much a F1 simulator would cost?

the actuators under that I have seen before http://www.motionsystems.eu/implementations/entertainment/2dof-playseat-motion-system/ , costly Id suspect and they are not that fast movement. And it is a full lift frame so that increases the cost even more.

Thanks dave I just wondering ,I happy with what I have .

thats ok, I look at other systems as well......