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Newbee. Please advice

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by J. M., Jun 1, 2016.

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  1. J. M.

    J. M. New Member

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    Hi,
    I have built a 737 flight simulator on a play wood platform including the cockpit shell. This is a 2.8mt wide by 2.2mt long. It is difficult to calculate the actual weight, but it would be about 250-300Kg. including the two pilots. This is a home-made, hobby, non-commercial simulator (limited budget).
    I would like to add some motion to give the sim a bit more immersion, but due to some space constrains, I could have 2/3 DOF with about 10◦ for the roll and pitch movements.
    Searching for alternatives I found a few providers that I could be use but they are focus on commercial settings with a forbidden cost to my hobby budget (they asking thousands of dollars).
    I wander if you could provide some advice in term which is better, use motors or actuators, which software and hardware interface I would require to connect to MS FSX + Prosim737 Software suite.
    Any advice would be very much appreciated.
    Thanks for your support.
    Best regards.
    J. M.
    J. M., Jun 1, 2016
    #1
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    It will pay dividends to do a bit of research of existing member 3DOF flight sim builds and have a good look through the FAQs, which have a host of build related information: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/

    SimTools has a plugin for FSX/Prepar3D, so that part is easy: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/marketplace/microsoft-flight-simulator-x-plugin.30/

    Given the estimated weight I would think you will need to look at AC motors to power it in the most cost effective manner: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/vfds-and-3phase-motors.9/category

    Given it is just to emulate a 737 some form of spring assisted heave is likely useful to minimise the cost of motors: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/ways-to-add-heave.224/
    noorbeast, Jun 1, 2016
    #2
  3. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    Hi @J. M. the 737 will be a "slow motion" simulator. As @noorbeast already mentioned the AC motors gives you the needed power but due to the slow motion you could go the winches route. The latter is not as loud as long they spin slowly and are extremely strong to hold a weight of 300kg or more.
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Pit, Jun 1, 2016
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  4. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Slow motion... Maybe - as long as you don't want to implement heave.
    SeatTime, Jun 1, 2016
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  5. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    why not?
    Pit, Jun 1, 2016
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  6. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    To be at all realistic, Heave is never slow even on a big aircraft.
    SeatTime, Jun 1, 2016
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  7. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    For home use it should be right okay, there is a compromise at least, my suggestion should help someone who is looking for a cheap but strong solution. BTW you know winches are not as slow as you might think, my seat mover is driven by two winches and the movements are still too fast at max power.
    Pit, Jun 1, 2016
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  8. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    My 6DoF winch motor rig worked very well indeed for heave. Plenty fast enough even with me and the simpit frame sitting on it :)

    But even going slow it was very loud :(
    Historiker, Jun 1, 2016
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  9. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    Agree, this is a fact and has to be kept in mind.
    Pit, Jun 1, 2016
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  10. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    @Pit not arguing that you can get some speed out of winches - your sim is testament to that, just pointing out that even a big aircraft needs some tracking speed especially in heave.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    SeatTime, Jun 2, 2016
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  11. J. M.

    J. M. New Member

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    Hi again,
    Thank you for your replays. I do understand that it would be an "slow motion" system when compared with any racing car sim or a fighter type sim. As indicated I would like to make it simple and implement pitch, roll and heave if possible. It appears that you suggest to use winch motors. I would like to know of any sketch available to could give me an idea and start point how to use these motors?
    Thank again for your support.
    Best regards.
    J. M.
    J. M., Jun 3, 2016
    #11
  12. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    noorbeast, Jun 3, 2016
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  13. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    Due to the limited budget you have to find a compromise at least. Winches are cheap and loud. The noise can to be reduced by some tuning measures, but they will still be louder then other motors. Or you use less stronger motors like the Borodine or motors from Motion Dynamics while adding some gas struts. Gas struts can be exactly justified to the weight.
    Pit, Jun 3, 2016
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  14. J. M.

    J. M. New Member

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    When I said "limited budget" I was referring to 3-4-5 thousands of $. As a hobby I have to look for a reasonable cost. I know I won't be able to install a motion system with $10.10.
    I would appreciate any advice on how to locate the motors in the platform?
    Thank you again.
    J. M.
    skywalker
    J. M., Jun 8, 2016
    #14
  15. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Which way is the cockpit oriented with respect to the 2.8mt wide by 2.2mt dimensions, can you please draw some sort of sketch or add some photos as some sort of reference.
    noorbeast, Jun 8, 2016
    #15
  16. J. M.

    J. M. New Member

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    Hi,
    I have attached some details about the cockpit. The CG details are an estimation.
    J.M.

    PIC_3.gif
    • Like Like x 3
    J. M., Jun 9, 2016
    #16
  17. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    You will need to find the actual COG.

    For 3DOF I would suggest 2 motors at the rear and one at the front, equidistant from the actual COG, which may mean the front motor is slightly further forward than the end of the nose.

    Being set up as a 2 seater the load and COG will vary. So you should ensure you have enough motor capacity to compensate.

    You could consider simplification, a pivoted 2DOF for the fuselage and simulated heave for just the seats, combining harness tensioning with G-seat or heave movement like @Pit and I use. Just a thought.
    noorbeast, Jun 9, 2016
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  18. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    Fantastic piece of static aeroplane! One thing is coming into my mind, the space which remains to the ceiling...
    Pit, Jun 9, 2016
    #18
  19. J. M.

    J. M. New Member

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    Thank for your comment.
    I have 300-400mm to play with on top of the sim, leaving enough space for the overhead projectors.
    That one of the reasons I want to have no more than 10 degrees for pitch and roll (with heave included if possible).
    I am still searching for the type of motors I could use.
    J. M., Jun 11, 2016
    #19
  20. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    While you do not know yet which motors you can use in your stead I would think about the motion design - due to space constrains and the considerable weight (you have to lift the rig on a platform which should be able to handle the weight). Furthermore there is one more "problem": you plan a 3DOF which is called a motion platform - in this case the screens have also to be attached on the platform:
    Pit, Jun 11, 2016
    #20
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