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New Simulator for a race team

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by evian_domino, Dec 23, 2009.

  1. evian_domino

    evian_domino New Member

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    Hi Guys,

    I am hoping to get some other ideas here for a simulator I am building throughout Jan/Feb. I own and run a very successful single-seater and sportscar team in the UK. I am lucky enough to work with some people who have lived and worked with some of the main F1 team simulators since they started with them. We are not in the position to create a sim like Mclaren but we do want to create something with some realism for our drivers.

    I managed to do some laps on a simulator at Silverstone in the UK which used the full Frex system. I liked the feel of the steering and the brake and throttle were very realistic. The movement however was not the best and not what I would expect. The graphics on the system were also not the best. With advice from one of the major curent F1 teams we have many of the aspects decided at the minute:

    1) it will run 3 projectors projecting onto a curved screen.
    2) The drivers will sit in a Formula Renault carbon race tub for single seaters and a cut down 430 shell for the GT's
    3) The system will be built into a bespoke made room with a control area.
    4) We will start static with a view to experimenting with motion.

    The ultimate goal is to have movement but it must be accurate and not massive movement. It is not considered helpful to have too much movement in any of the current F1 team simulators.


    We had also looked at using the Frex steering wheel and pedal setup. Do you guys have an opinion on what the best commercially availbale steering wheel and brake is? We would prefer to use a hydraulic brake system like the frex due to the realistic feel.

    The idea is also to mainly use rfactor as the base for the sim software. We hope then to be able to find someone who can model our race cars for the simulator. Does anyone here know who might be able to help with this?

    I also would like to make it as realistic as possible for the drivers. In order to do this I would like to use the exact steering wheels from the race cars. In the case of the single seaters these use an integrated dash in the wheel. What I would like to find is someone who has the capability to mprogram a system or create something similar that looks relalistic., I relaise this may be a tall order but I guess it must be possible somehow.

    I may even be looking to employ someone to be able to program fro the team going forward. I hope it is not against the rules to ask these questions on here. I would appreciate the feelings of you guys. There seems to be a huge amount of knowledge on this site.

    I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

    Regards,

    Evian.
  2. bvillersjr

    bvillersjr Active Member

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    Programming the appearance of your car into rFactor is relatively simple. Getting the physics (suspension, tire compunds, etc..) to accurately represent your vehicle is a tall order and can be quite time consuming.

    Contrary to popular belief, nearly any sim wheel can serve as an effective training tool when properly configured and most are capable of adapting to most steering wheels.

    The key to achieving your goal is to have a firm grasp on the thousands of variables (car physics, steering force feedback settings, motion profile settings, etc..) that go into producing an accurate simulation.

    Before you get much further, it might be a good idea to define your training goals. Once you do, it is likely that you will discover that motion is necessary.

    Here are some common training goals broken out by category:

    Learn a Track
    -Find your braking points (You can even test at certain times of the day. If there is a shadow on your braking point at that time of day, you will see it in the simulation.)
    -Learn the optimal apex (Often this directly relates to learning track surface and rumble strip intensity)
    -Find optimal passing zones (Often this directly relates to learning track surface and rumble strip intensity)
    -Learn the track surface. (Where is it smooth, where are the slick spots, where are the bumps) **This requires accurate motion **

    Learn a Vehicle **Requires vehicle physics to be accurately represented in rFactor **
    -Determine qualifying and race setups (Suspension settings are easier to determine if you have motion, but it can be achieved without motion)
    -Determine relative tire wear with given setups
    -Determine relative fuel consumption and pit stratgegy

    Make It All Second Nature
    -With a properly tuned motion profile and reasonably accurate car physics, drivers can benefit from muscle memory as a result of motion. This concept, while difficult to explain, is proven to provide significant benefit. Drivers will know what the track should feel like under given circumstances.

    This is a pretty quick overview, as the subject would require a novel. My main point here, is that you should define your training objectives before determining what hardware you will employ.
  3. evian_domino

    evian_domino New Member

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    Hi Bernard,

    Thanks for your post. The objectives initially will be to help the drivers stay in a race seat and learn circuits that we have a limited track time on.

    After that the sky is the limit I guess. We would ultimately love to go testing on the sim. We do have very accurate tyre graphs from the tyre manufacturer and a very good undertsnding of the car physics. We will also run two cars in a rig test during Jan. We would hope to be able to use some of this info to create a very accurate model of the car.

    I relaise that motion will be necessary in the longer term but it is the expericnce of some within this that it must be done very well. We aim to have motion and I want o start looking at this now.

    Regards,

    Andrew.
  4. Nima

    Nima Member Gold Contributor

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  5. evian_domino

    evian_domino New Member

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    Thanks Nima,

    Brake system looks good. I am still fairly keen to use the Frex wheel. The way it is manufactured it will fit into the carbon chassis we have really well. Have many people used one? As I said in my initial post it did impress me when I tried one before.

    Andrew.
  6. bvillersjr

    bvillersjr Active Member

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    Watch the videos on YouTube of this wheel. I can't figure it out. The guy is sawing the wheel back and forth 100 degrees at all times and the demo was in a Formula 1 car! This might work for drifting, but I have my doubts about it as a real training tool. If you really did that in a Formula 1 car, you would be in a wall before you knew what happened. I cannot say whether or not this can be resolved with settings. A couple of guys here have the Frex wheel who may be able to comment further.
  7. mrpio

    mrpio New Member

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    Just one little detail that popped to my attention - you are planning to use 3 projectors on a curved screen.
    You must remember, that unless you use some specialised lenses or really expensive software (that is not guaranteed to work with your sim), a projector on a curved screen will always produce an image that is vertically pinched and stretched/diluted at sides. While it may be considered acceptable (but not for serious training purposes really) with a single projector (see: http://www.eventor.pl/symulator-ruchomy ... otion.html), the result would be rather awkward with 3 thusly deformed sections.

    Looking forward to seeing your results, good luck

    Piotr
  8. Alviomsim

    Alviomsim New Member

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    :hi: Merry Christmas for everybody and happy new year Good Luck With the new projects in 2010 :yes:
    :cheers:
  9. adgun

    adgun Active Member

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