My first 3 axis flight simulator project

I am building a 3 axis multi directional nonstop motion flight sim.This simulator will have 3 axises and you will be able to do none stop 360 deg rotations on all 3 axises with no cable twisting.I'm going to use slip ring assembly to achieve this .http://www.moog.com/products/slip-rings ... ugh-bores/ but unfortunately I'm completely inept when it comes to programming and electronics.I have started the cockpit and it will sit on a stand so i can get all wiring and one motor with slip ring assembly working on 1 axis first,to try to take it slow.I plan on this prototype ,to use stock joystick peddle,key bored, mouse,and video input for 1 monitor.My slip rings will need a set number of rings in order to power the D.C drive motors,and video signal as well as all the peripherals to get to cockpit.Its a big undertaking but I know it is possible.I need advice on circuitry and number of rings on ring assembly to have all of the peripherals I mentioned.The motors will be 1500 w 115v I will need 1 for each axis(they do come with electronic controllers/brake that will need to be wired
I don't want to overwhelm anyone including myself so I'm only building it with 1 axis(roll ) first,than ill get slip ring and motor assembly working video signals through ect.After i have got 1 axis working with the flight sim program I will then add my remaining 2 axises .
I plan on using(U.S.B 1 or 2?) as i think it would be cheapest way to get peripherals working in cockpit and use a hub in cockpit for anything extra.It would need a emergency stop that would activate controller to reposition cockpit back to level for unloading and loading.I don't plan to have any gauges ect. on prototype just all basics to run flight sim and keyboard/ mouse combo for adjusting values while in in cockpit.(less rings in the slip ring assembly the cheaper it will be)
LOL any suggestions on calculation the total circuits for the slip ring assembly so i can order 1 to start with?Need the wire ratings and number of wires in each circuits.( at $3000.00 per unit i want to make sure I'm not 1 ring short of a full load)

Hey I have started on my 3 dof platform ,I am using these actators http://www.servocity.com/html/1010_lbs_ ... ctuat.html
I know they are slow but the way I am using them will travel 2 per sec.
post some pics of what your doing if you have any . your project sounds cool but way more than I could handle.

My design will use electric motors instead of actuators ,but any help is good help .I'm also Canadian.posting.php?mode=quote&f=22&p=27426#

You are already overwhelming yourself!

There are a lot of problems with a continually rotating 360° platform. The first problem is in software, and controlling the position over an infinite range. There is no infinite range of forces available for you at the moment. Some sort of very smart hardware control system has to be there on top of the software that will control the simulator properly (even for angular positions where you flip from 360° to 0°).

Here is my best advice: Instead of making a full-scale 1axis platform, make a small scale 3DOF model with some cheap motors and hobby components. It will save you a lot of space, money, testing time and headaches! If you can get it to work on the small scale properly, going bigger will be much easier.

I'm Canadian also. :

You are already overwhelming yourself!

There are a lot of problems with a continually rotating 360° platform. The first problem is in software, and controlling the position over an infinite


Well I have always seemed to be the first to jump in with both feet .(Ask my wife.)It would defiantly be cheaper .The movements for inputs would have to be figured out regardless,so I guess this is my first question than:Has anyone figured out the software to accomplish this?I have seen large scale sims with full roll axis in flight sim environment before so it can be done! I'm still going to continue with full scale on one axis because I am so thick headed(sure that's what she said once)but if anyone has heard of this or done some experiments already I'm all ears.Its a concept I am convinced will offer the occupant a much more realistic ride .You would be in a 4 point harness of-course.I do have future plans of making money of the concept at some later date after bugs can be worked out.I relay like help figuring out ring count so i can get first slip ring assembly but as I said I know nothing about USBs,I do understand basic electricity and have wired and had inspected many homes in my life.So I know the counts ill need for motors 115v,20 amp 1500w circuit for them.19 Monitor would be(15 pin with 115v 5 amp) ,50-100 watts circuit here(V*A=Watts)19 inch draws 1.1 amps so I may go bit bigger here to add 2 more monitors later.
I may be able to use a liquid slip ring, hook a hose up to a bucket of beer and stick other end in my mouth. posting.php?mode=edit&f=22&p=27440#
Warning all experiments done here are in controlled environment.

First of all, what is your budget for the whole system? $50,000? $100,000?

I have to disagree here. You jump in with both feet, invest thousands of dollars, only to find out you cannot do what you want, the way you want it. Then you will have to make a decision to invest 3x more, or let the whole thing go. There is a reason why multi billion dollar companies invest in prototypes... TO FIND OUT IF IT IS WORTH DOING OR NOT!

Just take my advice and get a small working model working first. It will cost you a couple hundred dollars and you find out if the software side works or not.


Don't waste your money on those slip rings. Just use hollow bearings and feed your wires through.

Don't forget most of these type of simulators you refer to use proprietary software, probably custom written for a couple specific games and specifically for that simulator. Some use their dedicated simulation software that is not available for public use. And we are talking about price tags well over $100k.

After further thinking, the software is not going to matter.

For simplicity, let's ONLY consider angular positions: roll, pitch, and yaw.
When you roll an airplane, you want the cockpit to adopt to the exact same angular orientation.
The data coming from any game is going to be this angle, a value between 0° and 360° respectively (a 32bit value).
X-Sim can output this value, no problems.

The magic happens when you make a complete circle. You approach 360°, then all of a sudden the maximum value is reached, it has to overflow and start again at 0°. A regular positioning system cannot handle this. As you get close to 360°, it will go in one direction as normal. As soon as the position overflows, it will suddenly reverse in the opposite direction and start speeding towards the other end. It doesn't know that it should just keep going, and zero it's position instead.

Proper continuous 360° motion could be achieved with a specialized position controller that is set up to handle these scenarios. I don't know any controllers that would do this, you will have to do some research.


This only applies for the 3 angular degrees of freedom and we kept it simple.
What is going to happen when you mix in some lateral and longitudinal forces. Since the same physical axis (roll and pitch) is simulating these forces, there will be conflicting motion vectors in the system that will cancel each other out, giving improper simulation. Upside-down and oriented in weird positions will only make things worse.

Let me give you a very simple example:
You are turning right in a fighter jet.
Centrifugal force pushes you to the left (lateral force to the left, simulated by tilting the cockpit to the left).
Because you are turning right, the plane will also bank to the right to make the turn (angular tilt to the right, simulated by tilting the cockpit to the right).
In real life these force vectors will add up to a vertical force squeezing you down to the seat. In the simulator these forces will cancel each other out.

When you have 360° of motion, things can get real tricky. You have to make sure the simulator does nothing dangerous and all of the possible scenarios are handled properly!

Projects like this take years of research and development with a lot of highly educated engineers (software, hardware, mechanical) to complete.
Yes, everything is possible. But is this something within your knowledge and capabilities?

Ultimately you have to decide if this is worth that much money, time, and effort, or maybe just go for something simpler, like a 6DOF hexpod?
And don't forget about putting yourself at risk at any given time you sit in the cockpit.
It takes only one minor glitch, one loose screw, one faulty connection, and you are not simulating, but literally flying!

I will try to give my best to help you and I'm sure others will follow!

Thank you very much .I am intelligent enough to know I'm not intelligent enough to do this alone and would be more than happy to share more details via PM .I do hope I can find some people to partner with on the project.I rely think I'm on to something that would be primarily sold as a commercial amusement apprentice verses the private user although I think a 2 axis nonstop and yaw axis on swivel could be used in a scaled down unit for home use.

I don't want to discourage you, but you cannot rely on others to help you with this. Of course we can try our best, but after all this is a hobby community and not an engineering program in a highly advanced university. If you are looking for serious help, you will need to look somewhere else. And that help my friend, is not going to be cheap.

Going commercial with a community project, designed by regular DIY hobby people is just not going to happen. You will spend an arm and a leg on getting certified for safety, if you get it certified. The first accident on the ride will put you out of business before even the law suites are filed!

I admire your ambitions and I know what it's like when you have big ideas. I just cannot realistically see how this will work.

Nothing will discourage me at this point.I'm willing to spent time and money .I have a mill write to help with all the mechanical aspects and have access to all the tooling and workshop space and I will build this in 1 year.I have also approached our local collage to see if perhaps they would take it on as a student project and hope Ill get a response soon.It would be a great collage project for them and the students would gain a lot from this I think.

Something like this maybe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meYx9RuCAQY

wow that is cool

If you have access to such manufacturing equipment, it will be much easier on the mechanical side!

What area do you live in?

I wouldn't count on a college's input on this considering the economical situation (I go to college as well, and things don't look too bright regarding research projects).

Your best option would be to offer CO-OP jobs to students, but then you will need to legally employ them.

It would be great if you posted the pictures!

I'm in Prescott,Ontario.

Hi folks,

I'm thinking on that issue, too. My greatest concern is that of the safety. The rest should be 10% genius and 90% sweat .

Indeed, frakk is right on the considerations about force vectors. For eample: if we go into a continuous right level turn and bank the plane properly, say 60°, the resulting force will point exactly to our bottom, neither to the left nor to the right! However, banking our sim 60° to the right won't be the same at all, due to the absence of a centrifugal force. So you'll be hanging right shoulder down. That's just an issue we can deal with: if the real resulting force will point down to our backside, we slowly turn our sim back to 0° and our senses will be satisfied. But what if we roll our plan upside down and pull the stick back firmly? The forces will switch from -1g to +4g - we cannot roll the cabin 180° back to sense a positive g-force, we can't simulate that.

One idea is to calculate the least error vector and roll/pitch/yaw your cabin regarding to that calculation. Ok, that could be a first approach. A second approach could be: put in the calculation even higher derivations of the forces like roll speed or roll acceleration.

Keep in mind, it is not possible to simulate the real forces. One idea (I'd like to be the first one that'd build it - but I'd be glad if there was any guy who would) is to fix rubber bands at your overall and your helmet and pull them down controlled by the g-forces. So you would be able to switch (I mean to change abruptly) force direction from plus to minus and vice versa. You roll your cabin upside down, pull the stick, and the rubber bands motor pulls you into your seat. Can you imagine?

I have considerations about the hardware, the projection, the screen, too, so if you're interested, i'll announce it here, so we can discuss further issues.

Build it! If it works, I'll build the second one

Cheers

Ailer

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2786&p=27495&hilit=#27495

It is only 2DOF and the frame is a little flimsy, but it should give you guys a good starting point.

Perhaps your not to far out to lunch,4 small actuators to push seat forward and backwards rapidly on the top of your yo-yo or loop, or laterally on banking turn.posting.php?mode=edit&f=22&p=27501#