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Question motor speed adaptation to the motors

Discussion in 'SimTools Pro & Entertainment Version' started by riton, Oct 21, 2017.

  1. riton

    riton Active Member

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    Hello
    I can not properly adjust the effects on my engines.
    I notice that if my engines are too fast, the effects are too violent.
    the only solution is to reduce the speed of the engines.

    it is contradictory, because to have a good result, good feeling on the small effects requires fast engines.
    but, if the engines are fast, on the big displacement of the axis, the big effects, the displacement is super fast and very violent.

    I do not find a compromise, except to lower the speed of the engines and reduce the small effects.

    I also tried other solutions such as: lowering the PID, changing the acceleration ramps ...
    these solution are very bad for the quality, it smooths and removes small effects, it is not possible.

    So how to use fast engines on the whole length of the displacement.
    imagine cylinders 50 cm long with a speed of 50 cm / s

    thank you
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
  3. riton

    riton Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    I tested a lot of things.
    my motors are AC motors of 16trs.
    at 100Hz I have 32 trs.
    at 32 trs:
    it's impossible to get a good adjustment so it's violent and fast.
    I must go down to 70Hz or 22/23 trs approximately.
    and it's still super fast and violent.
    But unfortunately it's less good on small effects.

    if I take the example, I only surge on my engine.
    if I use the value Auto it is impossible to have a good result, the simulator will break me in two !!
    if I keep a speed of 32 trs:
    I have 2 solutions:
    I must decrease the axis in% or increase the effect values.
    if I increase the effect values, I have to triple them to get a not too violent simulator.
    by doing that I lose the small effects.

    if I decrease the axis in%, I lose in violence because it limits the big displacement, but I have only small displacement, the braking are short .... the big displacement does not exist anymore
    I spent hours understanding, I tested a lot of configuration possible.

    I think that the management of the speed of the engines is the cause.
    I'm not sure there is a solution ...

    how to determine the speed of the engines necessary for the good result?

    I have +/- 16 °, 32trs seems to me impossible to fix

    you recommend 20% of the axis for Surge, but at 20% I do not take advantage of a well inclined braking that continues in time.
    the simulator will not bow very much.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    They are very odd Axis Assignments, what is your sims actual construction for axis, can you please post some pictures of it.
  5. riton

    riton Active Member

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    Its a 2 DOF with one motor for left and one fore right.
    [​IMG]
  6. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I thought that may be the case.

    Hence instead of Extra 1 it should be roll, as you don't have a dedicated traction loss axis.

    You really need to go through these steps to refine a motion profile and keep the total axis allocation to around 100% to avoid clipping: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/steps-to-create-a-motion-profile.228/

    Do one axis/force at a time and in particular pay attention to Tuning Center values, the lower the value, which sometimes can even be less than 1, the sharper the movement but over a more constrained axis range, the bigger the value the softer the motion but over a greater axis range.
  7. riton

    riton Active Member

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    I really tested in every way.
    It is impossible to find a compromise between violence and the quality of small effects without lowering the speed of the engines.
    Unfortunately lowering the speed of the engines, also decreases the quality of the effects.

    I suspect a problem of resolution with the Thanos AMC card.
    I had already noticed that before with Xsim.
    by changing the setting parameters from 16-bit to 32-bit, I improved the resolution. the small effects were really better!
    but today it does not work the same way anymore.

    I wonder if there is not a problem in the resolution, "a bug" between the parameters, the soft and the card ...
    how does it work at the level of resolution? how does Simtools work? he works in what resolution? is there a way to increase the resolution of the information to get more details in the effects?
  8. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    Have you played with capturing Max/Min settings for the game your playing buddy?
    yobuddy
  9. riton

    riton Active Member

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    yes, if I use the min and max, the scale of sensation is bad, either it is too violent, or I feel nothing.

    it looks like it lacks the resolution.
    it's very bland.

    all or nothing
  10. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    Well lots of people use the AMC interface with SimTools.
    And it even has 16bit input, so I don't see it being a resolution problem.
    I know there are quite a few settings in the AMC interface itself, maybe something wrong there?
    yobuddy
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. riton

    riton Active Member

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    I do not know, it's in the AMC?, not sure.
    others have the problem in France, Vulbas (AMC) and PlaySimulator (Ardruino)
    Are there any problems with resolution? , plugins? Assetto Corsa?

    After several attempts to configure the interface in simtools, 16 bits / 32 bits .... Simtools does not work anymore, I do not have any more motions.
    I will have to uninstall I think.
  12. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    No, there is no problems with resolution.
    Infact it has some of the highest available.

    May I see your Interface and Axis assignment settings please?
    thx,
    yobuddy
  13. riton

    riton Active Member

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    https://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=463120configSimtools1.jpg

    These parameters are not necessarily a reference.
    I tried everything, only one effect for example.
    I can not do anything good in every case ...
    Even if I take a single effect, that I use the auto values, that I adjust them, nothing is fine.
    either it's too violent, or it's empty, without effects, like smooth.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
  14. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    Your settings are wrong is all buddy.
    Click the preset button on the axes assignment page and then select the "SimForceGT" preset. (and click save)
    Please do this for the "Default" & "Assetto Corsa" in the game list.
    Then try again and I bet it will be a much different experience.
    Take care,
    yobuddy
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. riton

    riton Active Member

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    what does Simforce GT bring?
    My simulator has a right engine for the right / left axis and a motor for forward / backward.
    I do not mix engines.
  16. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    How about a picture of the sim?
    And screen shots of you Interface settings.
    yobuddy
  17. riton

    riton Active Member

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  18. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    It is very hard to help when you don't follow the advice being given...I see you still have the Extra1 Axis Allocation in the latest picture despite already being told that is not correct for your 2DOF rig:

  19. riton

    riton Active Member

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    I have already tried what you tell me.
    if i take a single effects i have the same problem.

    it's been 10 years that I have fun with Xsim then Simtools now.


    it is not forbidden to use the extra data 1 on my axis, it is very positive to feel the car skid.
    that's really not the problem.

    I read and understood what you say.
    but even with one effect I have this problem. for example I delete all the other effects, I keep that surge, it's the same thing.

    my English is very bad, do you understand what I say?

    you ask me for information on my simulator, you do not seem to understand
    Just look at my avatar, there is the photo of the simulator.
    then I say that I have the problem with one effect, you tell me that I am not your advice.

    it is not to put Roll in the extra 1 place that will help me, I said that with only one effect I had the problem ...


    if I need anything, I make 10 messages here, it's a deaf dialogue, everyone wastes time.

    Before asking a question here, I tested days and days.
    your help is to say that my config is bad while you do not understand my type of simulator.


    I almost regret having bought a license, I really feel like being taken for a child, not to mention something else

    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  20. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    I understand that English is not your native language but all I can do is repeat what I have already said, the way you are gong about this is NOT going to result in a refined motion profile, the problem is how you are approaching the settings.

    Turn everything except surge off, lower the Axis Allocation to something sensible, like 40%. Press Capture Max/Min in the Tuning Center and drive around cleanly then hit Save New Settings. Test drive. If the effect is too soft lower the Tuning Center value, if it is too pronounced raise the Tuning Center value. Once happy do each of the others in turn and refine: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/steps-to-create-a-motion-profile.228/