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Low cost 2dof motion simulator kit - Dynamic Kit

Discussion in 'Commercial Simulators and Peripherie' started by Radioproffi, May 23, 2016.

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  1. Fluke

    Fluke Member Gold Contributor

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    I have also received mine and have issues at the moment, but will post up a full review as soon as I can.
  2. madpcsupreme

    madpcsupreme New Member

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    Questions for dofreality owner:

    -on assetto corsa, where do u put your extra1 at? I have the p3 version. Do u put it at dof6, as extra1 on the 3rd axis roll?

    -I got the dirt4 plug in from dofreality, patched the game successfully, but the rig isn't moving while racing, anyone else got it working?
  3. flibber

    flibber New Member

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    Has anyone done a comprehensive review of this kit yet?

    I would like to see some details about responsive these motors are and how much haptic feedback they give. I would also like some details on mounting options (handbrake and gearstick) for left and right hand drive???
  4. flibber

    flibber New Member

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    ... also, how come shipping within europe is so expensive? $450 ????
  5. Fluke

    Fluke Member Gold Contributor

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    I also got stung for over £450 import charges, so you need to add that on top.
  6. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Rift Flyer

    Joined:
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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    After being initially disappointed with my platform, I'm feeling a lot happier now. I'm using it for flightsim so can't comment on how well it copes for driving. Much of my initial disappointment was probably related to the inadequate packing materials (which they say are now improved) which meant it arrived with very badly damaged packaging (big hole in the side!), which I only noticed much later had caused problems with:
    • motor/sensor alignment
    • looseness/slackness of levers...which in turn caused...
    • movement more jittery/gritty (rather than smooth) than I would have expected
    • some noise with the motors constantly trying to settle at the right position.
    On the plus side I was lucky and had no import duty to pay. I'd be interested to know what others have had to pay on import duty, as it can be a big factor and would make a difference when recommending this product to others.

    Anyway I'm happier now as the DOF Reality guys paid for me to return my motors and they came back working much more smoothly. No charge all round and fortunately no import duty again.

    The only niggle I have remaining is that the virtual axis alignment does not match lever position. I'm still trying to get a realistic motion profile, but its made more tricky as the levers max out at around 50% of what simtools thinks is full range. @Radioproffi is looking at how to better calibrate it so when the levers reach their limit, simtools is showing (at least close to) 100%.

    What I still really like is the compact and sturdy design. Mine arrived well finished with just the odd scuff mark, probably due to heavy metal parts rubbing together during shipping. I appreciate good engineering and I like this platform.
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
  7. Fluke

    Fluke Member Gold Contributor

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    My packaging was also ripped and the parts scuffed. I agree it's a very compact sturdy design. I haven't been able to get it up and running with a game yet, so can't comment on how the motion side of it works.

    I am away on holiday at the moment, hopefully when I get back home I can find out what the issue is and have it running.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. flibber

    flibber New Member

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    Hi Guys,
    Thanks for the feedback so far.

    @ both...
    Did you have any concerns paying via a method that has no recourse if anything should go wrong?
    How do you rate the aftersupport for the problems you had?

    @ Fluke....
    How come its taking so long to setup? Is this an physical problem or just your personal circumstances?

    @Spit40 (i use both driving and fluight sims)
    What flight sims are you using with the motion sim?
    What aircraft are you using, single engine, bigbirds or fighter?
    How are you mounting your flight controls?
    How would you rate the dynamic kit with flight simulators, does it give good immersion?

    @anyone
    Really interested to know about haptic feedback on this rig. I know that movement and G-forces are probably well simulated, but what about road surfaces, rumble strips? Is this rig refined enough to give this type of haptic feedback?
  9. Fluke

    Fluke Member Gold Contributor

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    It took a while to build as the instructions are incorrect and show parts that are not included in some kits. Looking at the website photos didn't help as they showed an older version that has bracing not included in the newer kits.

    This was not helped by having a box ripped open during transit, because as there is no parts list I was not sure if anything was missing.

    The instructions need up dating and should be specific to which ever platform/model you buy. Having said that the build once completed is very stable ans seems rock solid.

    I don't have mine running yet as I seem to have a problem with games communicating with Simtools and the motors. I can move each motor using the sliders in Simtools, I just can't seem to get the motors to move during game play.

    I am on holiday at the moment and need to spend some time on it when I get back to find out what the problem is.

    It's always a concern when paying out a chunk of money, especially when there are very few reviews about. However it's a niche market and there are very few affordable platforms out there.

    Communication with Radioproffi has always been polite and helpful so far.

    I bought mine with flight sims in mind and as I use an Oculus Rift don't think I need a lot of movement to help with immersion. Having said that this site has bitten me hard with need to build my own 6dof, which I am gathering all the parts for.

    If you want more haptic feedback, especially for flight Sims. Have a look at my earlier posts, where I modded my Obutto seat with additional motors.

    I hope this helps.
  10. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Rift Flyer

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    I'm using Aerofly FS2 mainly for single engine GA. I've dabbled with WarThunder and DCS, but I'm still trying to get a good motion profile, which has been hampered a bit by the motor problems and simtools calibration problems, so I've decided to focus on getting it just right on FS2 which I know well. Pitch feels quite good. Roll I'm working on, using roll acceleration instead of absolute roll, but trying to make it level off in a way that isn't noticeable. Yaw feels good in the air but a bit odd on the ground at the moment - again there's the issue of using yaw/sec instead of yaw, focussing on the forces of movement rather than the absolute movement. I've decided not to spend a lot of time on it though until the DOF Reality guys get the calibration sorted. I don't think that mechanically there's anything lacking in this platform.

    Regarding g-forces by the way I've decided that the best way of getting that is with a g-seat which is my next project. A pitch/roll/yaw platform has limited scope to give a sensation of g-force other than momentary thumps of heave/surge.

    My setup is a central yoke + throttle quadrant on my right hand side.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  11. flibber

    flibber New Member

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    Thanks for your replies so far guys. However, i must confess that so far I am not getting a positive feeling that this kit is really buld and go. I seems more suppling of parts with heavy emphasis of trying to figure out the build on configuration yourself?
  12. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Rift Flyer

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    In terms of 'build and go' there are 2 main challenges:

    1) Physical assembly. Trickier than i expected, though i got mine very early with v1 documentation. Hardly a showstopper though. Everything was there and a good look at a built platform first shows its not really that complex.

    2) Tuning. No getting away from this for any platform. You're trying to simulate the real world on a mechanical device with only 10 or so degrees of pitch/roll and optional yaw. You have to compromise and compromises vary by game. You're also more interested in the feeling of the force rather than the actual movement. Then you try to get a feeling of some of the other DOFs by feeding some (again to taste/game) of that data into the movements you have available.

    Personally the challenges on top of that which i experienced shouldn't crop up for most: plugin for my preferred game was broken for several months as game is early access, shipping damage affecting motors. As for my virtual/real axis calibration issue i don't know if anyone else has this as no one else has mentioned it.
  13. Andy Booth

    Andy Booth Member

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    Hello all. I may be a little off topic but I wonder if anybody can help.

    I've just bought a P3 rig with traction loss from DOF Reality (will do a review soon) and Im running an ECCI7000 ffb motor with a SimFai wheel and an SLI display. But Im not sure how Im going to make the SLI display work.

    Prior to the motion rig I was using the SLI software to actually run the game from their software overlay. However now, as far as I can tell it will be the simtools software that runs the game/Sim.

    Does anybody have a similar setup and can explain to me how simtools can implement the SLI display prior to starting a sim through simtools.

    Thanks in advance
    Andy
  14. born2bslow

    born2bslow New Member

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    Hi Fluke,

    Have you posted a review yet, I'm really interested in this rig because of the affordability and my lack of skills to build my own. Would be interested in hearing about the whole experience of purchase build and play...I'm looking at this for Racing Sims rather than Flight but would appreciate greatly any real experience you can share...

    Thanks
  15. Andy Booth

    Andy Booth Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    Let me give you my take on the DofReality P3 rig I purchased. Here is a potted history and my thoughts on the rig at the end.


    Iv'e been sim racing for a couple of years now and running a mixture of equipment, ECCI 7000 FFB, SimFai Solutions custom wheel, HPP PRX-SE pedals and a couple of Thrustmaster TH8A shifters, all mounted onto a Obutto R3volution rig and projecting onto a screen.


    All was well in my sim racing universe until one afternoon when a friend and I was searching the net for ways to make our sim racing experience a little more immersive. We hit on the idea of having traction loss which would give us a little more feedback and improve our experience, and was initially looking at buying the SimXperience traction loss frame and mounting the Obutto onto that frame somehow. That’s when we came across the DofReality website. For a similar price for the SimXperience traction loss frame we could have a 3 DOF rig giving pitch & roll and the traction loss we were looking for.


    After getting the green light from she who must be obeyed, and a number of questions to DofReality who responded to our questions very quickly, my friend and I ordered 2 of the DofReality P3 rigs. The P3 rig has more powerful motors with integrated step down gearboxes


    This is where things went a bit iffy.


    Initially DofReality wanted a 10% deposit. That's not unreasonable, but we had trouble paying. We are in Malaysia and DofReality are in the Ukraine. We wanted to pay via Paypal since its a secure way of paying with some level of control if things went wrong for both parties concerned however DofReality couldn't accept payment by Paypal even though their website said they can accept Paypal payments. Not the end of the world however so my friend just sent cash via bank transfer. That took some sorting out but we got there in the end.


    DofReality then contacted us and asked if we had any special requirements. My friend was in the middle of purchasing a full Fanatec setup so wanted everyting to be drilled to suit. Me, because of my mishmash of parts I wanted all wheel and pedal plates undrilled so I could mount as I saw fit however I needed the mount for the Thrustmaster shifter. So it was going to be two rigs, basically the same but slightly different to suit our specific needs. No problem they said, the boxes would be marked up by name so we knew which was which when the boxes arrived.


    Time passed and we didn't hear much from DofReality. Any questions we did ask were responded to but the speed of the response wasn't as quick as previously and the responses were somewhat limited (but we put that down to a language barrier).


    When it came to final payment, there was further problems and delays. Again, because DofReality don’t have a working paypal account we had to pay by bank transfer. DofReality provided bank details but they were not in the format my bank would accept. When that was finally sorted out, my bank had trouble converting money from local currency to US Dollars and then transferring that money to the Ukraine (Malaysian banks are not the best either). All that took over a week to resolve and I think both DofReality and us didn’t seem to trust each other.


    Once payment was sorted the boxes were shipped. DofReality used a local (International) Courier who provided no details of where the packages were other than ‘Left Ukraine’. The packages were being air freighted but it took 2 weeks to arrive.


    When the packages did arrive, while DofReality did pack the items quite well, the boxes were not strong enough, probably due to the weight, and one of the four boxes (two boxes per simulator) was spit open.


    OK, so I got my rig home and started to assemble.


    Problem number 1: While the rig was identified as mine with my name on the box, it turned out that I had my friends with the frame drilled out for the Fanatec gear. That would have been a minor inconvenience however my friend was flying out on holiday the following morning and we had to sort something out so at least I could get my bits allowing me to assemble while my friend was out of the country. Dof Reality had clearly got the wrong names on the boxes even though they had been informed which rig and it’s requirements went to which person.


    Problem number 2: The assembly instructions provided by DofReality are out of date, so while the assembly was fairly straight forward, the mounting of the wheel plate was different and it did take some time, and a few aborted assemblies, to work out how to assemble.

    Problem number 3: The wheel plate and the associated frame is not square to the rest of the frame. While it didn’t matter too much because I had asked for no mounting holes drilled, the actual assembly meant the mounting of the ffb motor clashed with the mounting bolts of the wheel plate frame.

    [​IMG] upload_2017-7-17_15-3-58.png

    Problem number 4: The pedal plate was also out of square which, while not a major problem, when assembled it doesn’t look very good because the pedals look lob-sided even though they are actually square to the seat.

    upload_2017-7-17_15-2-31.png

    Problem number 5: The new wheel I purchased would not fit on the mounting frame. DofReality provide 3 holes per seat mount to cater for different seats. My seat didn’t fit in any of the holes and I had to get the Dremel out and cut slots between two holes. Not a real fault of DofReality this one, but a major inconvenience.

    Installing software provided by DofReality went without a hitch and actually getting the rig to move was really straightforward. The SimTools, were simple and easy to understand once you actually got your head round what was happening. DofReality provided links to all the software needed including all the plugins for chosen sims. The actual installation instructions from DofReality were a little confusing (again probably down to translation) but everything was provided. After an hour or so, I had managed to get the motion rig to work with iRacing and Assetto Corsa. It felt awful but it worked.

    But then I had problem number 6: For no apparent reason one of the pitch and roll motors went hard over wedging the bellcrank against the control arm and then froze. I then spent the following day stripping the rig down again and trying to problem solve what had happened. I still don’t really know, however I did manage to learn how to use the testing software, reposition the bellcrank and eventually reset everything to make the rig work again. DofReality were able to give me default settings for the motors and got everything working again. I suspect it was the motor feedback pot and the link to the motor being loose but I don’t really know.

    So, I’ve been using the rig for about two weeks now. I’ve got the rig to work with Assetto Corsa, Automobilista, iRacing, Dirt Rally and RFactor 2. I’ve yet to try Project Cars and R3E. Setting up the speed and amount of motion of each of the motors has been quite a challenge. Generally ‘Less is More’. I started off with lots of movement and it just felt really un-natural and actually made me feel quite sick. I think it was the sway that was causing the biggest issue. While running the rig, it felt like I was sat balanced on a ball and could fall off at any moment (sorry its difficult to explain how bad it felt). At the extremes of sway it felt odd, returning to the central position was an awful loose feeling and the car would spin out at a moments notice and so unlike what I was seeing on the screen. After reducing the motion effect to almost nothing I was able to start to add small increments until it felt realistic and aligned with what I was seeing on the screen. Setting the rig up is everything here. You will spend a long time tweeking until you are happy.


    Now I’m dialing the motion in, I’m really happy with the rig. At first, I thought the DofReality Rig was just wrong and I had wasted my money, but now, yeah I’m glad I spent the cash and went through the stress of dealing with people who speak a different language (please don’t get me wrong, their English is 100% better than my Ukrainian). It really adds to the immersion. Purchase a DofReality rig and you are buying something you are going to have to work on. Things don’t fit, but the rig works. You are paying a lot less than the competition, and it’s not just a seat mover. The square section tubing used in the assembly is a little thin and can easily be crushed when tightening up but if you are careful then it’s fine. Obviously the software used is known and understood however if you are new to motion simulators there is a fairly high level of education. Probably more than if you were to purchase a motion rig from one of the more experienced manufacturers.

    As for my friends rig, he has had similar assembly problems with holes out of line and things not being square. Some of the holes drilled for assembly are so out of true they have drilled through the sidewall of the box sections.

    And I seem to have a problem with Dirt Rally on the rig. At the start pith, roll and traction loss works fine but I lose pitch and roll axis about half way through the first stage. I’ve yet to work out if by reducing the motion travel I can stop the loss of motion but I’m not sure if it’s a hardware or software issue. The rest of the sims work fine.


    Sorry, it’s been a long-winded report but hopefully it will give the next person some insight into what to expect if they were to go down this route. The DofReality P3 rig is great value for money but it doesn’t come without its issues.

    upload_2017-7-17_15-3-5.png
    • Informative Informative x 2
  16. born2bslow

    born2bslow New Member

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    Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed review Andy, much appreciated.
  17. Andy Booth

    Andy Booth Member

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    Guys,

    Any idea why this would happen?

    upload_2017-7-24_10-48-5.png

    While driving Dirt Rally on my DofReality P3 rig the axis 2 motor suddenly drove hard down to the 6 o'clock position and stopped working. I presume it stopped because the system saw too much movement and shut down. Max travel should be to about the 4:30 o'clock position.

    But what may cause the system to do that? I suspect there was some slip between the motor and the feedback pot. Upon inspection the nut locking the pot in place did seem a little loose but not really loose, more just not tight.

    It's happened once before and since I'm new to all this, I didn't really know what happened but managed to learn how to get everything back in order. Now it's happened again, I'm more interested in knowing what could cause the problem so it doesn't happen again.

    Thanks in advance.

    Andy
  18. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
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  19. Andy Booth

    Andy Booth Member

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    Noorbeast,

    I didn't post it under Commercial section because it was more generic than that. While it was on a commercial made rig, I was more interested in just the action of the motor driving over and what could be the cause.

    But obviously the post can go anywhere somebody seems fit.

    Andy
  20. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK

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