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JRK 21V 3A motor controller, Concentric LACT12p-12V-20 (110LB) linear actuator, X-Sim

Discussion in 'New users start here - FAQ' started by Deijan5, Mar 12, 2014.

  1. Deijan5

    Deijan5 New Member

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    Hello,
    I'm new and working on the Racing Seat (2DOF) simulator by using two JRK 21V 3A motor controllers and two Concentric LACT12p-12V-20 (110LB) linear actuators. I'm also using X-Sim for my data extraction and conversion. The JRK motor controllers and linear actuators are functioning appropriately when I'm using the JRK configuration utility program. They also respond to the calibration setup within the X-Sim program (output setup: synaptrix I/O output), however when the gam (Dirt3) starts, the actuators are not moving. I hope you can help.
    P.S., I'm not that familiar with XSimulator program and setup. I would appreciate any help.

    Thank you,
  2. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    There is a bug in xsim plugin for dirt3, ours using SimTools works flawlessly.
    I use Jrk12v12 but the setup is no different for the Jrk12v3.
    So what is it exactly that you cant get to work. Happy to help.
  3. Deijan5

    Deijan5 New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Thank you for your reply. How can I be able to use the SimTools for my project. I'm not familiar with the program setting. It seems a lot easier to work with SimTool, however I don't know the settings. I appreciate any help.
    Thanks,
  4. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    Ok the setting can be found in SimTools already.

    Open the Game Engine.
    Press on the Axis Button, on the right.
    Set your default axis , Axis 1 being one actutor and Axis2 is the other.
    Just as a test set Roll and Pitch only. You can revisit later to add more.
    Once you have set something like Axis1 - Roll 50% - Pitch 50% and Axis2 - Roll 50% and Pitch 50%.
    The little box next to each force allows you to invert the direction of the movement, like for Roll one will be inverted.​
    Press Save settings in the top bar.
    Press on the Interface Settings button on the right.
    Press on Interface1 button on the top bar, which will be one Jrk.
    Press on the dropdown box labeled Output Type and select SER for Serial communication.
    Press on the dropdown box labeled Presets and select either Jrk12bit or Jrk7bit worth trying both depending on motors, etc.
    Now this will fill or the details in for you, except you need to select the right comport for the Jrk which will be Axis1.
    Then change the BitsPerSec to 9600 which is the default for Jrk baud rate, it will work at higher speeds , the Jrk picks up the change and adjusts itself accordinly.
    Now you need to know the PID Period setting from the PID tab in the Jrk Utility and make sure that the ms for HW Start, Packet Rate, and HW Stop is changed to the same as you have setup in the Jrk Utility.​
    Press Save
    Press Interface2 button on the top bar, which will be the other Jrk.
    Now set it the same as you did for Axis1 Jrk except the change the comport to the right one (command port) and you need to change Interface - Output to read <221><Axis2>​
    Press Save.

    Right now we are ready to test the Jrks in SimTools first before setting any game up, I strongly recommend getting this right first.

    Now to test all the above settings,
    Press Output Testing button on the right button bar
    Press Turn On
    The Jrks should come to life and move to there centre positions, normally very sharply.
    Now you can move the sliders and check that the Sim Rolls and Pitchs correctly, if not Press Turn Off and invert the force on the right axis in the Axis Settings. And turn back on to test the sim movement and note this only used to test the directions and the amounts of axis used by each force, doesnt represent the game movements, they are a lot faster.​

    Once we know that the Sim (Jrks and motors) are doing all the right things I will move on and help you through setting up a plugin and your first profile. I can share my Dirt3 settings which will give you a fast base to start from.

    But first let us test the Jrks and get that part right, including going back to the Axis Settings and adding in Heave, Sway and Surge the key in achieving a nice balanced motion is that the total % of each axis does not exceed 100% too far.
    Once we have a game set up we can then tune the games MIN and MAX to the Actutors easily. I will explain that later.

    Please confirm that you have them runing via the Output Settings and we can move on from there.
  5. Deijan5

    Deijan5 New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    That is great and I followed your direction. It's working. thank you for guiding me through the setup process. The only issue that I have is regarding the PID Period Settings. In my JRK utility setup, I have coefficients of 35/0, 0/3,60/0, and PID Period: 10ms, Integral Limit: 1000, and Feedback Dead Zone: 2. I'm not familiar with HW Start, Packet Rate, and HW Stop, but I test the system and it's working. The actuators moved to the center. I'm excited to continue to apply the other settings including your Dirt3 plugin.
    Thank again you,
  6. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    Your PID setting seem a little high to me but if they work correctly then they are good. If you start the motors in the Jrk Utility and move the slider do they follow the slider nicely, ie the error between target and scale feedback in the graph should be a max of 5% for nice motion cueing.
    I use 0.4,0,0.5 , this is the decimal numbers , easier to work with. And Im using 180rpm DC worm gear motors on the JRK12v12.

    Ok the HW Start , etc is located in SimTools Game Engine - Interface setting as pictured below and needs to be set for both interfaces too. And with your setting it should be 10ms.
    Jrk Pid Period.png

    Please test in output setting to be sure the sim rolls and pitches the right way.
    Plus Dirt3 is 6DOF compatable so you can add all the other DOF except Yaw as sim doesnt yaw.

    Ok Dirt 3 settings.

    Close the Game Engine and Game Manager, make sure its not just minimised to the taskbar, exit it properly.
    Then download the Dirt 3 plugin from our resource section. And leave it as is , dont extract the files.
    Open the Game Plugin Updater
    Drag and drop the downloaded compressed plugin into the Updater, should get a couple of questions and then a success.
    Close the updater
    Open Game Engine and Game Manager.
    In Game Manager select the Dirt 3 plugin
    Press Patching
    Press Edit Path
    Select the righ path , were your save game is located, if you havent saved a game yet in carrer , exit this and do one carrer race to create the save then select that directory, mines in Documents\My Games\DiRT3, and patch game for motion, once confirmed we are nearly ready to race.​
    My axis setting for dirt3 is Roll - 25%, Pitch - 25%, Sway - 25, Surge - 25% and Heave 25%. Make sure you click save settings after up have altered it.

    Now my tuning centre setting are a little different from the standard it installs with.
    Dirt3 setting for tuning centre.png

    Once all setup we are ready to start the game and maybe fine tune it to suit your rig.

    Now just simply start Dirt3 with Simtools running in the bacground and SimTools should say Game Running in the Game Manager and Game Engine the Axis Setting and Interface Settings button should be greyed out too. The beauty of Sim Tools you just use the game like normal,no need to fire it up from the motion software.

    Let us know how you got along. The we can move on to tunning it to your rig.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. Deijan5

    Deijan5 New Member

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    The description you provided above made it work very well. The system is functioning and responding to the game. I'm sure with some adjustment it will get even better. I want to thank you for your help which without it, I wouldn't have been able to get this far without your help.
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  8. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    So have you been able to tune in a profile nicely yet, done a lot differently than xsim, actually a lot easier.
    A running video would be cool to see.
    Glad I could help.
  9. Deijan5

    Deijan5 New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    The XSimulator is very friendly, easy, and integrated to use. I really amazed by the program. I'm missing the "Tuner" application as soon as I figure that one uo, then I should be able to make some adjustment. I'm not sure why it wasn't part of the download!!! I appreciate your help with tuning.
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  10. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Ah if you might have read or manual you would have read that the tuning centre is part of the Game Engine.
    Right click on the Game Engine icon in the taskbar
    Select Tuning centre.

    And you can change value while live in game.
    This process is only done once per game, when changing vechiles and you want to fine tune the motion for that particular car , we can do this quickly and live throu the Game Managers Profile Editor.

    Ok I will explain how to tune your first profile to be adjusted later via the Game Manager. This is setting the base Min Max values for your motion.

    Ok I like to concerntrate on one force at a time, makes it alot easier to feel exactly what we want out of the motion.

    Open the Game Engine
    Click on Axis Settings
    Turn off all dof except for Roll and leave it at 20-25% if using 5 DOForces
    Start game in a window if pc can support it
    Right click on the Game Engine icon in the taskbar
    Select the Tuning Centre
    Place that near your Window for the Game
    Start a race and go on track, preferable in practice mode and go for a drive noting how much the roll reacts.
    If there doesnt seem to be much then the MIN MAX in tuning centre is too high and we need to lower these values.
    Click on Capture Max Min change the roll values
    Press Save New Settings
    Press Stop Capture
    Now go back to game and test what the changes have done, basicly what we are looking for is that when we place the car into a big roll movement, the sim reachs the axis % set at the end of the movement and not earlier than. This will help to sync the sim movement to the screen ,etc better feel.
    Now we have one DOForce correct and happy with the direction of movement, Roll can be tested by parking in a ditch on the edge of a road or driving side ways on a slop hence I recommend doing this in practice mode.
    To move on and test each one and tune each DOForce,
    Close the Game Manager by closing it in the taskbar, sim should disconnect.
    Open the Game Engine
    Click on Axis Assignments
    Change to the DOForce you wish to test and change the others to 0 ("-")
    Open the Game Manager , sim should reconnect.
    Test and adjust the DOForce as above and repeat the process till all 5 have been done.

    Now when all 5 are done change the Axis Assignments to back to their original values to mix all DOForces together and go for a drive , a little more fine tuning may be needed for example with Surge I like to have a larger value for my Braking movement and a Smaller one for my Accel movement , resulting in a nice quick hard jolt on changing gears and putting the foot into it, and when stopping on the anchors I not being tossed to hard into the steering wheel, but this is all things that you learn by playing around with the numbers , dont be afraid to experiement.

    Ok now that we are happy with a base profile we can move on a setup indivisal profiles, like in Dirt 3 I play a hell of a lot of Transporter (capture the flag) so I have a different profile in the Game Manager that I have called Transporter. So when I change to Transporter and a Rally run, I just ALT Tab back to the Game Manager , select the profile and go back to racing the game, no mucking around. Or stopping and starting the game. To do this as follows.

    While still in game and in a different class of car or game type.
    Open the Game Manager.
    If you just require to simply lower all the movement as in all 5DOForces in one go.
    Click Profile Editor and move the Main Level % lower than 100% and it affects all.
    Once happy with level after testing in Game
    Click on Editor in the Top Bar
    Click Copy in the Profile Management Group
    Give Profile a name
    Press Ok
    Now Close the Editor
    And you can select the profile via the drop box labeled Profile Selection
    You can even go back and change this setting live and changes will save automaticlly

    Now if you want to only change certain DOForces this is possible to as above one the Profile Editor is open, you can set the scroll bars for the desired changes and Copy the profile and save it to a new name, there is no real limits to the amount of profiles you have, depending on HDD space.
    You can change the profile at any stage while in game no restarting to feel the change its all live here.
    But once you have a nice profile , that your happy with make sure its selected in the Main Menu of the Game Manager and when you load this game again it will be the first profile used, plus when changing cars or race type a quick alt tab to change profile name and alt tab back into the race. Nice and quick and painless. I love it so much easier to use and profile.

    This type of profiling is for fussy users like myself most build a base profile and leave it like that, but the option are there for all as standard.
    Well that should include the lesson on SimTools, maybe I need to cut and past this into an alternative , getting started doc for SimTools ? not sure.
    • Informative Informative x 1
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  11. Deijan5

    Deijan5 New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    That's fantastic, It is much better and thank you for providing me this information.
    I'm wondering if I can switch the game from Dirt3 to Flight Simulator X or MS Flight Simulator 2004? I tried to follow some of the steps mentioned above and load the programs and plugins but I wasn't successful. I'm very happy with Dirt3 outcome, however I'm just wondering if I can use XSimulator and my setup for flight simulator too:).
  12. Deijan5

    Deijan5 New Member

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    Do you think I can be able to use this system for the Flight Simulator X?
  13. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    Since SimTools has a plugin for FSX you should be able to get motion from it just as you do with Dirt3. I have not used the plugin myself though so I can't tell you if it works as intended but I'm sure it was tested or the plugin would not have been posted.
    Your rig is actually better suited for flight simulation than for racing imo. According the the specs of the actuator model you posted, it has a maximum speed of 13mm per second so even less than that under a load! I can't see any way of getting enough speed out of these for an adequate racing experience imho. I'm not even sure you can get enough speed for flight simulation either except for leisurely flight! But if you're happy with the results you have now then all is good I suppose!
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
  14. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    With his Pid and setting his overdriving them a bit so might be a little slow, but if his happy with the feel, then I can not comment.

    Yes @Deijan5 you can use the plugin updater to install another plugin and it will copy the default axis setting for this game .Then patch the game with Game Manager then you can test and use the tunning centre to tune a base profile for your sim.
    Let me know if you have any issues mate.
  15. Deijan5

    Deijan5 New Member

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    So, I installed the plugin and the patch of the game by following your suggestions. When I start the game, the Sim gets disconnected (the actuators make small noise and won't function), however I can continue with the game without the motion. I feel, there might be something wrong with the patch of the game that causes disconnection. Also, when I open up the Game Manager after the disconnection, it shows Dirt3 rather FSX. I am not sure why this is happening.
  16. Deijan5

    Deijan5 New Member

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    Hello,
    I need help with my Dirt3 simulator. I haven't been on it for a while and the other day when I tried it, the simulator start moving slowly to one direction with no return to neural position (no-feedback). I'm not sure what it is causing this. I posted some pic from my configuration for your review.




    upload_2014-11-22_11-15-50.png upload_2014-11-22_11-19-19.png

    upload_2014-11-22_11-21-26.png upload_2014-11-22_11-22-20.png upload_2014-11-22_11-23-30.png


    The system manually moves very slowly and during the game it moves to a direction and no stop. Is there any changes that effected the plugin or something? I appreciate your input.
  17. Deijan5

    Deijan5 New Member

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    It seems almost like there is something wrong with the mathematical calculation.
  18. bsft

    bsft

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    current calibration is WAY to low.
    wind it up to 120.
    Drop max accel and max duty to 400
    Can you post a pic of your PID tab please?

    EDIT, then work with numbers in tuning centre, do each force individually
  19. Deijan5

    Deijan5 New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I made the changes, however I'm not sure where the EDIT is at. thank you,


    upload_2014-11-22_22-40-15.png upload_2014-11-22_22-44-44.png
  20. Deijan5

    Deijan5 New Member

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    I'm sorry I get it now. Here is after midnight:).