I/O cards..... not so bad

I know it has been said to new builders that retail I/O cards are not the way to go or even crap, but I am not sure I would discourage their use altogether.

They are good if you are wanting to start or wanting to prototype and want to be up and running with motor control within the day or even sooner. While I use them, I completely feel that you always need more outputs or better resolution then what they provide, but I will say they do offer alot in a quick plug and play package.

The two I use work via a plugin that in turn works with the interactive software I use (Macromedia Director). If it wasn't for that I would not be even close to motion control at this point as I only know interactive media scripting and not real programming languages.

Hats off to Thanos for design the ultimate controller I think this thing is really going to help everyone when its finished.

For other wanting to play now I can comment on the two that I have had experience with.

K8055 -

- low cost ($40 kit)
-8 digital outs only send 1.6V?(to low for some needs)
-2 analog in seems to be not as sensitve (ego has a fix but its still 8Bit)
-5 digital inputs - work good from testing haven't used in product
- PWM only 2 available 8 bit to low a resolution for speed control usually)
- USB
- no easy connect to 5V need to add your own screw terminal
- LEDs to slow output is working (really only need one per output type kind of overkill but nice)
- 4 can be used together
- the plugin I use only supports 1 output at a time (but a .1 sec delay on the next command will work-this is a limitation of my plugin not the dll that comes with the card)
- over all nice starter card--- large base of users

EZIO

- pricey ($129 assembled - must say it's for hobby use for that price)
-10 digital outs work great!!
-10 inputs work great!
- 4 screw terminals for ground and 5V+ ..very nice
-8 analog inputs seems to be more sensitve then K8055 even though they are both 8 bit)
- 2 PWM ports (10 bit resolution not bad for speed control I am happy with this .....12 bit would be the ultimate!!)
- serial so you need your own 9V power supply for each card and make sure you have extra serial ports
- No LEDs for any output but you can just test with volt meter
- you can use as many together as you have serial ports together
- over all nice card, my pick.... but I eagerly await Thanos solution


Here is a 12bit analog input card that if you can interface with looks good..seen as a joystick so not sure how applicable to most

http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836A/

I also ran into this little product that might be interesting to some .....great price but they get you on shipping $8??? It is so simple to setup quick connects to serial with this...so clean and no soldering...great for testing. I picked up to for data connection to the limiters and I love them. Never seen anything like these and serial cables are cheaper then USB sometimes...nice way to move 9 data line around a system. figured I would pass it on. Looks like US company only...might be bad for some if shipping is high...but can it get any higher..maybe same shipping price for international as US?

http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?ID=8141

Regards,

Kyle

Hi Kyle,
Have you had a look at immersions i/o solution. It controls 2PWM 24v 6 amp outputs (off top of head as it's been a while since I researched it). It cost around $700US and if you are familiar with scripting languages other than Lingo, Immersion has DLL's designed to operate with activeX and javascript. Meaning you can design web-based forcefeedback interactive solutions as well as use if for offline gaming.
Evan

Though Thanos' new controller isnt finished, his current parallax basic stamp controller solution is available since some time.

So, if you want to spend money, why not using his basic stamp solution. His simulator, which you can see in his current youtube vids, runs with it quite well!

Two parallax servo drivers are available together for 75Euro, and some more bucks for the basic stamp. But it can be purchased as a kit via parrallax website.
You dont have to assemble/solder it.
You'll get a programmed pic for sure from Thanos, if you send him shipping and chip costs.

I rather would make it this way than spend 700Dollars for a crappy I/O card if you cannot wait.
I/O cards are dark-ages stuff

ego

@ ego
LOL :razz: I commend you on your loyalty to the cause.

But I am curious now as to how you define Thanos computer interface board?

Ok, the PWM-Signal is some kind of I/O for sure. But I wouldnt go that far to say, that PWM=I/O. Cause the result is near an analog signal.

If you would conect ~5 I/O with 10 outputs each per motor direction to your computer, then you'd maybe have a comparable effect.

But 10 I/O cards are maybe hard to connect and to your PC and hard to configurate

@Kyle
Show me a vid of your sim. Maybe I'll change my opinion

Anyone can load my firmware on his BS2 chip on his own by just plug a serial cable on the programming port of the BS2. Its the most easy way and don't require programing knowledges and special software!

Thanos

Sorry, this time I've confused them

Programmable via serial Port. Great!

ego

@ EvenF

$700US I/O board! that must be a mistype? I actually have a hard time paying over $60US for an electronic part. I am really watching my budget and it is tight and with a goal of 5DOF under $800 I don't think I would look at something do pricey unless I have no choice (meaning I can't get it work at all any other way.)

If you are talking about the US company immersion they are good for modifiying effects in games or making your own. (I have there studio kit for when it was offered free) and you can do some interesting things with the force-feedback mice or gutting out a rumblepad (I was actually going to make a rumble vest once).........but these are little $50 projects. I am not sure what the $700 is but maybe there industrial card?..no for lingo I can do quite a bit but for lingo and full motion it has to be with a lower cost solution. I am just saying those 2 cards have been good so far and work with C++ and visual basic. I am basically puting those out their for info and Thanos BS2 is just as good just different then what I am doing.

Looked at Thanos BS2 chip solution and it is low cost and does a very good job from what I have seen. ....just could not use it because the pwm signal is servo geared and the motor controllers that I have want just an analog or locked anti-phase analog. Also I can not talk to the BS2 with lingo

I think the comparision is retail I/O cards vs custom made I/O cards. When Thanos get his custom done I can see myself replacing my gaming I/O cards with that as the X-sim integration will be tight.

Currently, I think there are limitations with X-sim and K8055 and I don't believe EZIO support would be somethng the X-sim guys would want to do? So Thanos' custom I/O card will be worth the wait

@ego

not sure what that means? are you saying with the retail cards that usually only have 2 PWM ports that you need 5 I/O cards per motor if you are doing a 5 DOF system?? I actually can use Locked antiphase mode with the EZIO 10 bit PWM and control a motors direction with 1 port so in the initial video that you will see on my site tomorrow (where I control pitch and yaw) I am actually only using 1 card(2 ports)...the standard High/Low way using two ports per motor is better resolution though. With locked antiphase mode I am basically making it 512 steps vs the 1023 I should be getting out of a 10 bit pwm port using it standard.

9/10 serial cards wow! that would be like 2 4 port PCI cards with your onboard serial...way to much...yea configuration there would be crazy

Like I had stated above....Tomorrow, I will post the URL, new picts, interactive illustration the WORKS!....I promise on this....hope I am not building this up to much ...hopefully some of the stuff you see, you'll like

@Thanos

The 2 reasons I haven't run out and bought a BS2 and controller is that I want to wait for your deluxe custom solution for the best X-sim integration.

#2 ...the other reason is that I know X-sim will have great control over gaming (both native and non-native or non-force feedback), but I have alot into my motion movie tracks and are not sure I can get control of your new card without using C++ to program in a new plugin for director (the app that controls DVD drives all the coded vie effects...home theather effects etc.)

Till then the future plan may be to run two systems: one for games (X-sim and the Thanos I/O card and the I/O cards for the movie stuff I am working on now)

...would love to find out what it would take to get your new board talking to the world of interactive media (Flash/ Director)....maybe it is easier then I am thinking?

Imho I/O cards in general are relay/transistor cards without intelligence. Just dumb opening/closing the ports when windows says open/close.
They do not operate autonomeous.

Like I said before. I some way a PWM/Servo controllers with position feedback are I/O card as well, but their ability to control and position actuators by themselves with a higher response time than windows, seperates them imho from standard I/O cards.

However...

Hi again Kyle,

It would seem you and I may share the same passions, that is to take multimedia to a new level of interactivity. VR etc. At present I work with Anark which is a web3d app and it works with jscript to send events in and out of the movie. I also aim to create further stimulus to my DVD productions by way of motion cue.
I guess you have already looked at D-Box and their concept of downloading interactive cues that synch with the timecode of a DVD.
I like their miniature actuators, nice to know where I can source some or even how to fabricate them.
http://www.d-box.com/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=39

Indeed yes I can confirm $700US was no figment of my imagination. Although I do detect the rep was trying to fob me off as once I researched into their brains trust via patent search I feel the marketing arm has taken over the helm and is more protective of their IP. ie: has there been an exodus of the original creators?
But then they have bigger fish to fry with their recent win over Sony with using their Forcefeedback IP. Yes they are expensive! And running their PC solutions on Vista may be an issue.

I am keen to try out the X-Sim synch to video solution..it could be fun to produce/author action motion synched videos !

As to the defining of an I/O card, I think the difference here is the microprocessor and purpose built firmware, but at the end of the day it is still an interface board!...a state of the art custom built turnkey solution! :razz:

I am keen to try out the X-Sim synch to video solution..it could be fun to produce/author action motion synched videos !
Does anyone have some good resoluted DIY Rollercoaster vids to share ;D

I haven't any yet and for rollercoaster I was actually going to use that great rollercoaster sim app for footage! Not as good as the real thing but fun anyway. For testing the X-sim software I was going to grab some FHM footage from 'Here come the mentalists' A dvd full of extreme sport insanity. Some of it is close to First Person and I only want to work with first person perspective.

I'd also like to test footage of US jet fighters, again some of it is in first person, and it is also in wide imax quality, so it should degrade well if X-Sim has issues with aspect.

Not sure how to simulate barrel rolls in the coaster and fighter movements though?

For DIY
1. I know someone with a head mount camera, although only 320x240 res he is an extreme mountain bike rider and has already been knocked off his bike by a bus 3 times (he dodges buses on his way to work), the last time he broke his arm. Anyway he is keen to grab footage for me of him doing some really dangerous stuff.

2. I also know someone who only needs an excuse to cane his Kawasaki 600 and is only too happy to weave through traffic at hi-speed...red lights too, for authentic footage. A hi quality camera will have to be used for this. Gyro mounts can be hired for a day or I will look into making one out of a hi-speed drill.

So yes when I am happy with how I can interface with X-Sim, and tweak my chair to suit, then my plans can start to really begin!