1. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Download Package Now!
  2. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  3. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant here. Do not following these rules will lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.

How will a motion platform work with inside-out HMD?

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by Doon1, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. Doon1

    Doon1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    42
    Balance:
    329Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    As I am designing my 2DOF chair it just occurred to me that the Windows VR device has inside-out tracking. It won't work will it?
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    12,614
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    96,486Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,106 / 40 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    It would need motion cancellation on a large axis sim.
  3. Doon1

    Doon1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    42
    Balance:
    329Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Trying to wrap my head around this. Using a racing sim as an example: I'm in a hard curve to the right. I'm looking right into the turn. The chair rolls to the left and pitches forward to simulate the right turn force and deceleration. The HMD "sees" the roll to the left and pitch down while I'm looking to the right. the resulting in game view change would be? Not what I'm looking at would be my guess. This would be even more pronounced in a flight sim wouldn't it?
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    12,614
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    96,486Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,106 / 40 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  5. Doon1

    Doon1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    42
    Balance:
    329Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    what a bummer. When I've finally reached the point that I can build a platform, it won't work for me.
    if the xsimulator software could send its info to the hmd position software to be canceled out that would be great. Anyone know how to do that?
  6. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    12,614
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    96,486Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,106 / 40 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    The motion cancellation option we have works because the tracking and cancellation are done on the SteamVR side, using existing tracked controllers. That is the easiest and most sensible way to go, SimTools has no role to play in that.
  7. gSeat

    gSeat Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2017
    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    usa
    Balance:
    886Coins
    Ratings:
    +48 / 0 / -0
    Curious why it won't work for you - you have one of the MS headsets only? If so maybe ditch/sell it and just by vive?

    That's a nice explanation.

    A separate tracker like the vive tracker will come into play. Motion cancellation for VR is still very new in the dev community, motion sim is niche by itself, so it'll take time. Resources, time and # of devs involved. It's possible for MS headsets, just not out in the wild yet. I'm working on my sim right now, and will pick up a vive if necessary after providing feedback for for OpenVR.
    • Useful Useful x 1
  8. Doon1

    Doon1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    42
    Balance:
    329Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    After reading through this thread again it occurred to me that the WMR devices might be easier to use as the HMD is the “tracked controller”. Plus the WMR device works flawlessly with the Vive. No need for for revive with any of my games.
    Can I install the motion software and the cancellation software to see if they play well with the WMR? Would there be a way to tell if they are playing well with the device even without a motion platform?
    Btw. I was telling my students about this and they want to build the platform. So I’m going to let them. The welding and engineering students want to get in on it too...
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  9. Doon1

    Doon1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    42
    Balance:
    329Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    The telemetry data being sent to the platform software would have to be subtracted from the HMD positional data, right? This would be done with the Holo development software I’m guessing. I’m going to go searching to see if anyone is working on this.
  10. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Vive

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Messages:
    727
    Location:
    USA
    Balance:
    4,203Coins
    Ratings:
    +748 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    @Doon1 - I'm wondering if it would work but I think the inside/out cameras would need to just see your platform and not the outer room in which the platform is moving.

    If the headset only sees the inside of your car, then the motions it "sees" would just be head motions inside the car. If it can see the room where your platform is sitting, though, it would "see" your head movements due to your own movements plus the platform - If I'm thinking about this the right way.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    12,614
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    96,486Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,106 / 40 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    You would need a controller mounted to the rig in view of the hmd and subtract the position of the controller from the hmd positions with the holo sdk, if the holo sdk allows that.
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Vive

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Messages:
    727
    Location:
    USA
    Balance:
    4,203Coins
    Ratings:
    +748 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Yeah, I bet you are right. If it has any inertial sensors it would need a reference subtraction. If it is all optical, then a moving frame of reference would not be an issue.

    Damn inertial sensors... :confused:
    • Useful Useful x 1
  13. Doon1

    Doon1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    42
    Balance:
    329Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    @noorbeast I thought about mounting a controller to the platform but the controller would have to remain in view of the optical sensors at all times. So no checking my six for bogies. Ball of flames heading for the ground...
    @Zed I thought about a box that would enclose the platform. With visual indicators that the optical sensors could see and a few fans to keep things cool inside (mainly me). But that would completely cut me off from my family so it is not possible. Plus I never even thought about the inertia sensors. Damn inertia sensors...
    So that only leaves the subtraction of the game's g-force (?) data that the platform uses from the HMDs sensor data. Yes?
  14. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    12,614
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    96,486Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,106 / 40 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    The downside of inside out tracking.
  15. Doon1

    Doon1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    42
    Balance:
    329Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Yea,but it works so well in every other aspect.
    I can't do the Rift or Vive either. I tried them both and passed on them because of the resolution. I've read were people have stated that they can't tell the difference but I can in a BIG way.
    For the time being I'm going to build a 2dof. I have the stuff and my students want to help, so why not.
  16. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Vive

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Messages:
    727
    Location:
    USA
    Balance:
    4,203Coins
    Ratings:
    +748 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    @Doon1 - HTC has teased a resolution increase. The announcement is expected Monday but that’s all we know for now. People are speculating everything from WMR resolution to 2k x 2k panels with hardware upscaling but we won’t know until Monday what, when, and for how much.

    Might be enough to win you over...

    I just know my credit card is ready. :thumbs
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Doon1

    Doon1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    42
    Balance:
    329Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    hey look, it's an Odyssey...
  18. getti

    getti Currently building my first 2dof seat mover...

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    Canada
    Balance:
    220Coins
    Ratings:
    +45 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    HTC Vive Pro announced:

    https://blog.vive.com/us/2018/01/08...r-new-vive-pro-upgrade-wireless-vive-adaptor/
  19. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    12,614
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    96,486Coins
    Ratings:
    +8,106 / 40 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
  20. Doon1

    Doon1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    42
    Balance:
    329Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Hi all. Been away for a while. Got into iRacing and purchased a Fanatec wheel and pedals. I also upgraded to the Odyssey+. Is there any development on motion cancellation for WMR? Still hopeful.