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FlyPT Mover

Discussion in 'FlyPt Mover' started by pmvcda, May 30, 2019.

  1. Thanos

    Thanos Building the Future one AC Servo at a time... or 6

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    Great!!! But still in you can add Vibe information for RPM for example would make it the best!! hug:
  2. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    You can already:

    Sem nome.jpg

    That's a pose generated from rpm.
    It can be added to the final rig output, like motion or suspension.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Thanos

    Thanos Building the Future one AC Servo at a time... or 6

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Ok, I tried but it was missing bytes from the string... Here is the correct string for 16bit values for 4 axis platform (AMC-AASD15A with 4 axis SFX100 actuators):
    <255><255><Axis1a><Axis2a><Axis3a><Axis4a><0><0><0><0><0><0><0><0><10><13>

    The issue is that is the Axis5a and Axis6a are not defined, they transmit as one byte (0) that is wrong. Otherwise for 6DOF platforms the other string above works fine.

    Thanks
    Thanos
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Thanos

    Thanos Building the Future one AC Servo at a time... or 6

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I had to "Hide" all windows otherwise the output is like steps....





    Of course this is with unfiltered motion data. I should try with some actuator filtering perhaps?
    Also LFS seems that it does not support suspension data.... bummer... I couldn't try that.


    AMC FlyPT settings1.jpg

    AMC FlyPT settings2.jpg
    • Like Like x 1
  5. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    The logistic function in Mover behaves completely different from hexapod.

    I am unable to tune the slope in Mover.

    Could you please double check if it’s working like intended.

    Whatever the values are set, the motion exaggeration around the center position is huge.

    Thank you
  6. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    Yes, I know.
    I have it already corrected for the next build.
    It was a rounding problem, by converting from int to double plus a mismatch between EMA filters and the Logistic
  7. Thanos

    Thanos Building the Future one AC Servo at a time... or 6

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    @pmvcda

    A beta tester from my pool (AMC-AASD15A beta testers) has issues with Assetto corsa, experiencing huge lag... here is a screenshot, how else I can describe it...

    IMG_20190701_174139.jpg

    He has 4 axis platform (AMC-AASD15A with SFX100 servomotor actuators )

    Mine works good with LFS (UDP direct connection).
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. benmax

    benmax Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi ,
    With the first software I was having this lag issue ( flypt hexpod ). I solved it also putting the software in mini mode ( windowed mode ) and I turned off the checkbox 3D thinking that the problem could come from cpu ressource .
    I don’t know if it’s the reason but doing this anymore lag playing in game ( I use also filter I don’t remember which one Ed ( hp ) ( lp) etc )
    One more information. The problem happens only in game connected to simtools . Playing with the software only with sliders to test movements ( surge etc... ) and all in opened window + 3D representation , no problem
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
  9. Matt Raw

    Matt Raw New Member

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    @pmvcda

    Hello, i am the one having problem with your FlyPT Software :)
    I made some deeper testing and i finaly narrowed when the problem occurs. I am running a 4 actuators SFX100 setup and everything is working fine with Simfeedback or Simtool.

    I was finaly able to connect to ACC telemetry but with Serial module window closed, and running on virtual 3D viewer. Telemetry is okay, no lag, and rig is moving in the viewer window. But as soon as i turn on the Serial module, FlyPT becomes slow, full of lag, telemetry not moving at all or with 30 seconds delay and it finaly crash. i am not even able to try to connect to the controler because the serial module window is crashed.
    I have tried with controler hooked up or not to the pc and results are the same.

    I am able to connect to the AMC controler and AASD15A drivers and moving the rig with a testing loop. Movements are not fluid but jerky, like with poor resolution.

    I don't know if you can help or point me in the right direction...

    Thanks
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    HI Matt,

    Thanks for the feedback.
    I will make some tests and try to find the problem. Should be something simple I hope.
    I have two serials in my rig and did not have any problem...
  11. Psionic001

    Psionic001 Active Member Gold Contributor

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    FlyPT Mover Beta 1.3 with SimTools 2.4 and X-Plane

    Hi,

    Here are some thoughts and feedback. It’s also a bit of a wish list. I know you’re busy developing it and we can wait patiently for the “nice to haves”, but there are some thoughts and questions.

    I think it needs
    a guided setup wizard for initial setup:
    a basic manual.
    a narrated setup video is always helpful too.

    I stumbled my way through the FlyPT Mover setup today by guessing, assuming and using this forum as a guide (to connect my AMC 1280 MDBOX). Importantly, the Thanos board needed the following string that has been repeated a few times in this thread already:
    <255><255><Axis3a><Axis4a><Axis5a><Axis6a><Axis1a><Axis2a><0><0><0><0><10><13>

    Question: What’s the technical difference between using FlyPT source(s), and using Simtools as a source? Are you doubling up and giving yourself more work to do if it’s already been done in SimTools? It seems that using SimTools to act as the source gateway may be a better way to keep more games supported and up to date, sharing the load amongst the crowd as such? Unless I’m mistaken here about how this all works…

    For the loop mechanism, it DEFINITELY needs to have a feature where the axis movement/DoF EASES IN AND OUT in when the box is checked to add or turn off a movement. I have a relatively fast and powerful platform, and it jumped it an inch off the ground each time I turned some of the forces on or off. Also needs a slow ease in when connecting and disconnecting from the hardware.

    I also recorded a hectic heli flight to observe whether the cues and angles looked correct. I use the recorded flights to tune my platform for the different forces. The video is below. And the flight is exaggerated as usual to test clipping limits and make it easier to observe.

    Heave and Yaw seem to have some issues in FlyPT hitting their limits. Probably my current low level of experience with this.

    (Sway and Surge are missing which I think is an issue with the SimTools plugin or X-Plane. They are there in the initial flight, but not in the saved flight)

    This is a 4k screen recording so you'll need to play it back in at least 1080 to see the values.
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
  12. Matt Raw

    Matt Raw New Member

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    @Psionic001

    I think FlyPT is intended as a standalone software but connectable to Simtool.
    I personally like the way to have a full standalone software with integrated game plugins, always good to have choice.
    Plus running Simtool+FlyPT+game = more cpu load.
  13. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    waiting for a direct Mover support you can try my alternative xplane plugin...

    Attached Files:

  14. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    This might be xplane issue
  15. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    SimTools has a large base of games.
    The initial idea (first software) was to stay just with SimTools, but I wanted more info and to get that, I had to make my own sources.
    SimTools gives just sway, surge and heave accelerations, plus, yaw roll and pitch rotations.
    To this, some games add extras (3 maximum).
    And I wanted for example for cars: suspension rpm...
    So this is starting to look more a stand alone app. Not intended at the start, but that's the only way to control everything and make it modular.

    I could say that Mover is what I would like to see for SimTools 3.
    There are no limits. The limit is the hardware. It's up to the user to decide where he want's to go.
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  16. Psionic001

    Psionic001 Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Thanks
    I will give that one a try.
    Cheers

  17. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    Totally agree with the guide/manual/video.
    That video, it's the worse. My spoken English....

    The problem I got with the first version was the constant updates and changes of the software.
    This makes the manual need constant changes.
    And in the end, time goes to updates instead of manual/guide changes.

    I want the dust to settle a bit before posting a manual. Give me some time and I will make one.
    It's really needed!

    The smooth start/stop is also on the list of features to implement.
    It's more complicated than what it might look. It has to do with the way the software works.
    The idea is to have a low pass filter acting at the start and end of serial connection.



    For your video, I see many problems.

    You are not using filters. That's the reason for constant out of range on the actuators.
    Let me explain with Yaw (rotation around the vertical axis).

    Yaw comes from the game in a range of -180º to 180º. It depends where you are pointing in the world.
    But your rig is limited in the amount of yaw it can generate.
    Probably you can have something like 15º. So we have to fit those -180/180 to -15/15.

    For that you could use just gain, but what we want to feel is acceleration changes.
    Moving at a constant speed, you wont feel anything. What we feel is acceleration.

    So there you could use an high pass filter. Only sudden changes of position are used.
    You can select the amount of high pass by changing the value in the filter.
    A high value let's pass more changes. A low value let's pass just high variation changes. (using high value is the same has not having a filter)
    What happens is if there's a high variation, the rig rotates. If the variations are below the filter threshold, the rig doesn't move.... well, not really, she moves and goes to the centre alone.

    This is really simplistic. I really need to explain each filter and what we should use in each situation.
    But @Trip Rodriguez could help here :) he's using DCS and knows much more than me about the best filters to use in air plane simulators.

    SimTools vs other sources.
    Like I said to @Matt Raw, it has to do with the amount of info we receive from the games.
    I can get info with my sources, that I don't get with SimTools.
    Also there's here a kind of hidden problem.
    SimTools converts the range you define in tuning centre to a value between -1 and 1 (and also crops the value).
    This makes you loose values units and you don't know if the value was M/s^2 or G's. So when you go from one game to the other, there's no relation of values.
    On my sources you get the pure value of the game, and always converted to the same units. So when using two of my sources for different games, there's a direct relation of forces and data.
  18. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    @Psionic001

    To setup filters, I recommend you to take a look at what info the sliders show (https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/flypt-mover-interface.13464/#post-179337).
    The idea is that the bar behind the button never get's red (out of range).
    The extension of the slider is the range you define for your rig.
    So if you set 15 in yaw, it's normal the button get's red if the received value is 95º.
    But the bar behind shows the value after the filter and gain are applied.
    So you can work on the filter looking at the bar. But take into account that values coming from the game are always changing.

    So button is value received (with input gain)
    Bar is value output after filtering and output gain
    Size of slider is the range you define
  19. Psionic001

    Psionic001 Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Thank you.
    I will definitely get stuck into the filters. This was just my first foray into your app.

    Also, is there a way to create a “crash elegance”
    So for example if forces in excess of 10g are in the data, then the rig won’t break, and maybe goes into a slow down mode. I’m imagining a crash in Dirt Rally here, or hitting a wall in F1 etc. On my rig I could get huge forces throwing me around without “crash elegance”

    Many thanks again for your detailed replies.


  20. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    They are not detailed as they should be.

    I could activate the smooth when those forces happen. Another way of using smooth start/stop. I need to think it better, but that's a possible solution.
    I also have been working on a Source of a source.
    What that makes is filter/crop/displace input values and generates a new source. (but I'm having doubts about this)

    looks like xplane uses UDP to output data right? Maybe I could make my own source also.
    If they have gear info output, I can put it in suspension and we fell landings in a different way... (I'm 99% sure they have)