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FlyPT Mover

Discussion in 'FlyPt Mover' started by pmvcda, May 30, 2019.

  1. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Sir Lalancelot Gold Contributor

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    I do not know for no-limit as I did not tried it with the new mover, but, I adjusted the suspension filters values real time on the rig for Assetto. It was adjusting accordingly. I used a range filter to fit the value that adjusted my suspention right in the middle of my actuators. I had no need to connect or disconnect. It may depend on the parameter you are trying to adjust.
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  2. hannibal

    hannibal Active Member

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    i think im getting the hang of setting the values.
    the 3d and graphics viewer make it a hellava lot easier.
    the EMALP calculation makes movement smoother, not so jerky...
  3. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    I have a strange small bug.

    Even with engine stopped (0 RPM) I am getting periodically full amplitude (-+ 1%) kicks from RPM module in xplane.
  4. Dirty

    Dirty Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    Hey :)

    The flare (actually, airliners do more of a "break" than a flare) is indeed a moment when you use the seat-of-your-pants feeling a lot and funnily, it is THE moment that most passengers judge the quality of your work by :) In the sim, it sure is important to get good cues in that moment, but I'm not sure if it's worth defining a separate flight phase in the motion cueing algorithm for. I mean, if you want to code something, I am all ears to hear how it changes the feeling in the sim, but just thinking about it, I wouldn't expect it to make too big a difference.

    Without looking at concrete data, I'd guess that during flare you have G-loads around 1.1 -1.2 G. For airliners, that is close to the G-loads you expect during a typical flight. Barely ever will you have more than 1.5Gs. So the platform is already tuned well for that.
    Fighter jets will have G-loads up to 8 or 10 in flight, so it seems that when tuned for those, the platform will be rather unresponsive during the meagre 1.2G of the flare. However, that doesn't necessarily need to be the case if the proper filters are being used.

    If you use a EMA(EMA((HP))) filter, then you should get a response in Heave not proportional to the acceleration, but according to the acceleration onset rate. That's why it's called acceleration onset cueing.

    More graphically: If you plot the G-load over time, the important features are the steepness of the inclines of the graph, not the hight of the line above zero.

    If you want to try something out, I'd probably start fading over within a ~3 second period when the plane crosses below 50' radar altimeter. You can play around with different trigger heights and fade-over durations until you find a combination that feels good.

    I'd be happy to hear that I'm wrong, btw!

    Dirty
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  5. SimMeInMD

    SimMeInMD Member

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    @pmvcda

    In trying to search thru this thread, has it been asked if there will be support for DR2.0?

    Thanks!
  6. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    2.8 already has DiRT1 and 2.
    Will be a bit better in 2.9, specially for traction loss.
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  7. hannibal

    hannibal Active Member

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    any know how to apply EMALP and CROP at the same time?
    i am getting hard trips esepecially on assetto cause i am tuning for up to amplitude of 40.. but sometimes the game will go up to 60 in very short and unexpected times..
    i find the crop is helpful.. but i like the output of EMALP at up to certain amplitudes....

    my gosh, CROP is godsent...
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  8. Mark Pattison

    Mark Pattison New Member

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    @FlyPT,
    I was thinking to add a 7th port to Thanos' controller (perhaps for belt tightener).

    Can your software support 7 ports?

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Also, with X-Plane (when doing a full aileron roll) and I max. out the airframe G-limit, damaging the plane and lose all and any control...

    upload_2020-2-4_5-44-59.png

    In this scenario all outputs to the ports go insanely violent. This might be what happens in real life, but it could easily break the rig/gear boxes/etc. from the sudden jumps in positions... from "out-of-range" to "with-in-range" on the opposite side of the range limits. See video below for the sudden jumps (top left corner of the video).



    I know you can hit one of the three switches in the rig...

    upload_2020-2-4_5-51-52.png

    ...but perhaps you can't hit them quick enough before the violent shake-up of the rig.

    Is there a way to recognize "You crashed" in X-Plane from the source and shut down all bit outputs to the controller?
    _____________
    Best regards,
    Mark
  9. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    You can have how many ports you want.
    If you look at the Thanos output, you see you can add more actuators, but for that you have to define them by adding another rig or a direct output.
    For example for the belt, you could add a direct from the longitudinal acceleration. This defines a new actuator that you can then use in the extra outputs of the Thanos output module.

    For the crashes, I can see if we have something, but you can also use a crash filter to remove violent movements from the rig in the rig module.
    In the rig filter, try yo use a EDYNLP(VALUE;4) filter and see what happens.

    Will be out all day, so can't have any pictures now, but remember me tomorrow and I can show it better.
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  10. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    If something is solved on Discord it is best to record the resolution here, as the resolution will be easier to find here.
  11. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    Sorry, he's using a test build with a new setup and new filters. It will be all included in the new Mover 2.9.
    It's not in conditions to be published and shared. It will cause more problems than help.
    So to those using Mover, please don't feel relegated.
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  12. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    @pmvcda Raceray created a new section specifically for your software. I have moved the two relevant threads here. It would be a good idea to create a thread for posting updates that only you can post in ,to keep it clean and then people can create their own threads or follow along in a general thread.

    Great work on your software!

    EDIT: @noorbeast is creating a FAQ section for you as well.
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  13. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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  14. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    Hi,

    I will try to compile some of the questions I usually get.
    Some are made in other places and privately.
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  15. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    My Motion Simulator:
    6DOF
    So here's some of the questions (WIP):

    FlyPT Mover FAQ
    ===============

    WARNING!
    The use of motion rigs can be dangerous and cause physical harm to the users or people near the rig.
    Pay special attention to children!
    Also, bad setups can cause hardware damage. Always verify carefully the setup before using it.
    I don't assume any responsibility for physical damage you may suffer or damage caused to the hardware.

    1-What is FlyPT Mover?
    It's a software to get info from the games, SimTools or other applications and generate outputs to the hardware.
    In between, you can play with the values and generate motion using motion cuing algorithms or pass values directly to the hardware.

    2-How it works?
    It works in a modular way.
    We have various types of modules (windows) that send data to another module.
    Modules can be of those type:
    -Sources, that receive the data we want to convert in motion
    -Poses, that filter the data to generate a movement that fits the limits of a rig
    -Rigs, that are a group of actuators settings that define your rig
    -Outputs, that output the calculated actuators positions to the hardware
    -Directs, to generate an actuator from a source value (not using the pose)
    -Visualisation modules, to show graphs and 3D views of the rig

    3-What games are directly supported by Mover?
    Please look at the Mover thread to get a list of currently supported games. <<< SEE BELLOW

    4-How much do I have to pay?
    Mover is free for personal use. If you want to donate, you can do it through the links available in the main window of Mover.

    5-Is it easy to setup?
    At each version, I will try to add simpler ways of setting up your rig and filters.
    But to use it at full power/features, I highly recommend you to understand the filters and what is the result of applying a filter.
    It's also important to understand what type of movements should be used to trick our brain to think we are in the real thing.
    Please read the manual. <<< IT'S WIP AND WILL COME WITH THE NEW 2.9 VERSION

    6-What type of rigs Mover supports?
    I could say all, because you can define individual actuators.
    But full support with rig filtering included, is done for:
    -Stewart platforms with linear or rotating actuators (6DOF)
    -3DOF rigs like the SFX100 types with 4 actuators touching the ground.
    -3DOF rigs with 3 actuators touching the ground (1 front or 1 at the rear)
    -3DOF rigs with rotating actuators
    If you have traction loss in a 3DOF rig, you can add an extra actuator as a direct for that task.

    7-Can we control fans?
    Yes, a fan is an actuator.
    It's an actuator that depends on the speed received by the source.
    So we can use a direct to define that actuator and then send it to the hardware with an output.

    8-Can we use Mover with G Systems?
    Yes, see #7.
    You can associate individual actuators to specific values from the sources.

    9-Can we use Mover to control dash hardware?
    You can control any hardware with any of the received values. See #6 again.
    So for example you can use the speed in the source to move an RC servo that moves a needle showing the speed.
    Info available for that is limited for now, but may increase if requested.

    10-Does it needs or replaces SimTools?
    Simtools is not needed for the games Mover supports directly. But you can use Simtools as a source to use Mover with games supported by Simtools and not supported by Mover.
    Also, SimTools as features that are not present in Mover.

    11-Is it hard to install? To many files?
    No, it's just an executable.
    All other files are samples, files needed to communicate with games and the manual pdf.
    You need only the executable file and the setup file you generate in Mover.

    12-Is it to heavy in memory/cpu?
    It can be heavy, if you use high precision calculation loops.
    In this mode, load is above normal, but Mover uses the available resources, so if you don't have them, it should increase calculation times.
    Standard is 2 ms calculation loops with low precision. But you can change it depending on your system.
    Also, the interface works in a separated thread. It can become slow, but should not affect the calculations.
    After setting up Mover, you should hide all modules to avoid the modules updates.

    13-I can't understand the filters!
    From version 2.9, I will include a filter explanation.
    Look at filters as a way of changing a received value.
    From the received values we can generate a graphic of the value changing in time.
    Using a filter on the received value is going to change that graphic.
    For example we can smooth it with a low pass filter or we can get just the spikes with an high pass filter.


    List of supported games in the new 2.9 version:

    Cars
    Assetto Corsa
    Assetto Corsa Competizioni
    RFactor (and derivates)
    RFactor 2
    Automobilista (is a RFactor derivate)
    PCARS
    PCARS2
    Piboso GP Bikes
    Piboso MX Bikes
    Piboso World Racing Series
    Piboso Kart Racing Pro
    BeamNG
    F1 2019
    DiRT Rally (Also supports other Codemasters games like DiRT 3)
    DiRT Rally 2
    iRacing
    KartKraft
    GTR2
    GTLegends
    Race07
    RaceRoom
    LFS

    Aircrafts
    DCS
    IL2 Sturmovik
    P3D
    FSX
    XPlane11

    Other games
    No Limits 2
    GTA5

    Other apps
    SimTools
    PhyPhox
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    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  16. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    This has been added to and pinned to the top of the Flypt Mover FAQ section: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/flypt-mover-warnings-overview-and-supported-games.353/
    • Like Like x 1
  17. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    Sorry for the lack of news, but taking all the free time to work in the 2.9 version.

    Had some problems, already solved, and I wanted to give some news, so here's a new feature:

    upload_2020-2-19_17-14-44.png

    Filters have now a graphic to show the result.
    Horizontally we have the value we want to filter, and vertically, the result. Or simply Input / output.
    The idea of the graphic is to help visualize the result, and you can zoom and move it. Also shows the corresponding values in the cursor position.

    Only problem in those graphics, is that we can't show time/sample dependant filters, but I'm adding a little feature to help with that visualisation.

    Sorry for the delay, but I want next version to be easier to use and will include a simplified motion module besides this one (that will become the advanced one).

    Here's an example of the new traction loss filter in the advanced module:
    upload_2020-2-19_17-22-9.png
    The graphic based in a cubic, generates a dead zone, the horizontal section in the middle.
    The cubic followed by a logistic, limits the values to a specific range (15º) shown in the graphic as the outside horizontal lines.
    So if there's no rotation speed, we have no yaw, we are in the dead zone
    If speed increases, we start moving to the right in the graphic, and rotations starts until the maximum range of 15º
    Any speed above that generates always an angle of 15º (infinitesimal approximation).
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  18. hannibal

    hannibal Active Member

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    can i ask anyone here about the center of rotation parameters in the rigs module? how does one figure out what values to set for center of rotation?
  19. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    The center of rotation is the point in space around which we do the rotations.
    By default it's (0,0,0). And this point is the center of the top platform, the one that moves.

    You can change it. Why?

    Because for example, in a racing car like a GT3, you can be seated in the left, and the CG is maybe at your right, maybe at the level of the chair and maybe around your knees.
    So adjust it to have the center in that place and matches the one of what you are simulating.

    99% of games output data relative to the CG, so the correct way would be that in my opinion. But there are 1%... but they don't say it usually.
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  20. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    You may not abuse of this feature as it eats a tremendous amount of workspace.