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FlyPT Mover Interface

Discussion in 'SimTools compatible interfaces' started by pmvcda, May 30, 2019.

  1. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    When you are generating the noise, you can select the sources. For flaps, landing gear and speed brakes, using just the air source should be enough to remove the effect from the ground.
    Or I might not understand the problem.
  2. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    @Dirty can the pilot overspend the flaps in the airbus or the computer doesn’t let you do it ?

    1.)
    If yes, did you experienced a situation where the aircraft is shaking a bit in this case ?

    2.)
    I was told that you guys you can use the landing gear for lowering the airspeed in some particular cases.

    As a passenger I can clearly say that I can distinguish the turbulence in the final when the gear goes down than less and less.

    Could you comment please ?
  3. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    It’s very good but you have to take at least the airspeed in the equation otherwise it’s not realistic IMHO.

    EDIT:

    Some quotes:

    “[The] drag depends linearly on the size of the object moving through the air.
    [The drag varies] with the square of the relative velocity between the object and the air.“

    It can be that those noticeable fuselage vibrations are caused by the tiny vortexes hitting the different parts of the aircraft.





    Let’s wait for the pilots to comment
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  4. Dirty

    Dirty Active Member Gold Contributor

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    I'm pretty sure in most modern aircraft extending the flaps at speeds well above the limiting speed (VFE), the SFCC (Slat Flap Control Computer) will not execute the command. You can move the lever, but nothing will happen until speed is below VFE.
    If the flaps are already extended (e.g. on Takeoff) and you increase the speed beyond VFE, there is an "auto flap retraction function" that will retract the flaps 1 step for you.

    1) I have mishandled the flaps on occasions, but never noticed a reaction from the aircraft in respect to vibration.
    2) Yes, lowering the landing gear creates A LOT of drag. At least as much as the speedbrakes. If you end up "hot 'n high" on the profile and you get a tight vector, lowering the landing gear early will make you drop like a piano. The LGCIUs (Landing gear control and interface units) do provide a protection on gear extension, but do not provide auto retraction. Normally the gear is extended at around 180Kts which creates noticeable noise and some turbulence. High frequency, low amplitude. More of a hiss than a rumble. Extension at VLE (usually 250Kts) will create A LOT of noise. But still the same high frequency hiss and slightly bigger amplitude. I'd describe it as: More like a vibrator than a jackhammer :)

    Different story on small general aviation airplanes. They have no protections. I'd expect some turbulence on high speed gear extension, but not necessarily on flap overspeed.

    In general, we are trained not to exceed the limits, so I can only make guesses. Here is an actual Airbus training video worth watching. The interesting part starts here.

    A while ago I heard an interesting description for the changing stall buffet: As you approach the stall it feels like....
    - 10000 mice running over the wing
    - 1000 dogs....
    - 100 buffalos...
    - 10 elephant...

    I think the video gives an idea about that.

    Dirty :)
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  5. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    Thanks for the useful info.

    I can quote Boeing here :

    “This differs from the normal vibration felt as flaps come out or speed brakes move up — it is a change in the expected level of vibration.“

    Source:

    http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_16/vibration_story.html

    If I understand correctly, with flaps, what a passenger or a pilot feels is more the transition of flaps than airflow buffeting.

    @pmvcda I think we have a dataref in xplane to know when the flaps are in transit.
  6. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    I think current value is already the amount deployed.
    You could make me a table how we should make airspeed interact with those extra values.
    I can make it adjustable in the source options.
    All this is going to be replicated in DCS where possible.
  7. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    Table is more complex and concerning the flaps I am not sure it’s realistic to do so based on what @Dirty just said.

    Yes from what I saw it’s a percentage 100 fully extended 0 fully retracted.

    Simple transit seems even easier to get.

    Can we add the noise only when the variable is changing and stop the noise when it remains steady whatever the value ?

    Having this we could add a bit of noise only when the flaps are transiting. Landing gear is another story and needs for sure a noise which includes the airspeed factor. That’s what we want for flaps I guess. Could someone correct me please if I am wrong ?

    @pmvcda , you understand what I mean?
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  8. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    Concerning the landing gear, as I mentioned before you can proceed like this :

    “[The drag varies] with the square of the relative velocity between the object and the air.“

    Drag (AND THE NOISE) I suppose.

    @Dirty is that correct?
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  9. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    That should be an high pass filter or an LP(HP) to make washout slower.

    You could try it, because the pose from noise allows you to add a filter to the value. Not sure if you get the desirable effect, but if yes, it's the best way to do it and the intention off adding a filter in that pose.
    I'm thinking of it to generate surge when changing gears (increase effect) in cars for @SilentChill, but it requires a pose dedicated to a an axis instead of general noise/vibration. It's WIP and hope to get it in the next build.
    This feature can also help to enhance certain effects with other values for other dof and with user defined filters.
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  10. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    @hexpod ,

    That speed relation with landing gear, needs to be done inside the source.
    I can make it exponential. It's going to be reflected in the source value for landing gear, because it's going to be associated to speed. So we should see it change by just changing speed, while the landing gear is down. And always zero if up.

    Speed brakes and landing gear should also have that effect
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  11. Dirty

    Dirty Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Yes, I think that's the most sensible starting point. Drag most certainly is a quadratic function of IAS. Noise appears to be as well and I'd find it only reasonable if the vibrations were similar. You can still change it to be linear if you find it a bit too much.

    Dirty :)
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  12. benmax

    benmax Member Gold Contributor

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    hi ,
    programmed roll speed in roll axis as you proposed and that's perfect ! Like supposed roll world inclinaison didn't give the information for a bump ( you know , i speak about the brim painted white / red on the race track ) . Using the roll speed the feeling is really great , it's like the real car when you jump on the brim !
    Thx
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  13. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    Found a bit of time to give this software a test and am very impressed with how modular it is. My 6DOF and G systems are working, but allot of work still required to finesse it all for say Xplane11. Excellent work @pmvcda :thumbs.
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  14. wannabeaflyer2

    wannabeaflyer2 Well-Known Member

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    Hi @pmvcda back again with another Noob Question , Dont laugh , im trying to get to next stage of understanding my way round Mover Setup and use , loaded V2.6 all seems good so now trying direct source and was using No Limits demo as 1st test program .. Did IPconfig on my PC to determine IP settings and the Default Port is 15151..

    have selected no limits as my source and have No Limits running in minimised mode , press Connect and cannot see any data changing whilst roller coaster is moving .... Does the Demo spit out data or do i need to Buy full package ..

    was about to do that last week but bought Kart craft instead LOL .. Just trying to get my head around Mover setup ( No Motion sim yet) oh oh and good new for me , seems that latest version Allows me to open saved files without error message .. so for me small steps but getting there .. Cheers

    Would have tried KartCraft but damm thing is still uploading from steam grrrrr
  15. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    You need the full version.
    The demo has no telemetry output from what I remember.

    Ask anything. Will help where I can.

    Edit: You can also test LFS, the demo has telemetry.
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  16. wannabeaflyer2

    wannabeaflyer2 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @pmvcda saved me another "am i going mad" evening LOL Cheers :)
  17. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    Just recorded the RL landing gear drop kick and additional vibrations on A320 from third row.

    B5AC6716-0D6B-4983-8AC3-E7A9B27A527A.jpeg
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  18. Dirty

    Dirty Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Oh,.... that's cool!!!

    I have felt it thousands of times, but it's nice to see the data :)

    If you want to model this, here's what I'd consider:For gear extension, it is really about the moment when the gear uplock releases and for a split second it feels like dropping a bomb. The rest is barely noticeable, but THAT moment is very noticeable. It's a positive vertical (upwards) acceleration. The graphic shows that really nice.

    On retraction you feel almost nothing except a very faint humming. But here's the thing: The nosewheel does not have brakes! So it will retract into the gearwell while spinning at ~ 150kts. On A320s it will just keep spinning for maybe a minute or so. After 10-15 seconds it will reach a frequency that matches the resonance frequency of the gear strut and THEN you will feel the nosewheel shimmy under your butt for about another 10-15 seconds. Newer jets are not so bad, but in the older ones I actually thought it might as well be an uncontained engine failure.

    Dirty :)
  19. Dirty

    Dirty Active Member Gold Contributor

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    That graphic shows a lot more actually!!

    A few seconds before the spike the gear doors open (jitter increases) then the gear strut unlocks (spike) but it is almost immediately caught by the hydraulic actuators (downward acceleration). Then another 2 seconds later the gear strut enters the air stream and creates a lot more jitter.

    It's a pleasure to analyse this data!
  20. Dirty

    Dirty Active Member Gold Contributor

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    If you still have the data of the longitudinal acceleration, you should see drag increase right when the gear enters the air stream. :)