Dampening bar for wiper motors

With SCN5, the pro Simxperience uses a dampening bar, attached with rubber.
It smoothes the feeling, more real, they say.
I am constructing my rig with wipers, and made one dampening bar too, but i am wondering if it is needed at all for wipers, i am afraid there will be no vibration simulation as with SCN5.
And i will want all the possible fast movements.
Now i have to decide whether to include it, because of the fixed geometry by welding.

Anyway, why are the wipers always slower, if they got the same electrical power as SCN5?

For starter's the Dampener's are Only there to protect the Rather Fragile Actuators, Gear motor's or even to some extent wiper motor's are FAR more durable than a SCN5 or 6. So therefor we DO NOT need any damping

Wiper's are generally slower due to the fact cars dont need 10000rpm to clean a windsheild. lol

Thanks, should have asked earlier, now I dump the drilled bar
As for the fastness, with the same mechanical power, you can move a mass with the same speed.
The gear ratio can be worked out. Maybe the wormgear is a bit less energy efficient, but a wiper even can have a bigger motor than SCN5.
Good to know that they are less vulnerable, anyway they were even free

Now i see that the damper bar is for:

• Dampening Bar (Prevents simulator jumping and movement)

It can be a problem with wipers as well, but if it happens, can't it be solved by putting rubber under the whole frame?
[I can not continue welding, until i did not decide ]

As Nick says, dampening bars are to protect the actuators from breaking. SCN actuators are fast but dont really have the strength of a larger DC motor.
Forget dampening bars, and dont worry about rubber under the whole frame, Id be doubtful if you your simulator jumps around that much. Just put it on a piece of carpet if you want to protect the floor.
Now lets compare.
SCN5 , popular for shoulder mount seat movers, the actuators are rated at 400mm per second travel, but thats unloaded. loaded at their rated 5 -10kg, its more like 150-200mm per second travel.
DC motors have a lever on them, so that increases the speed of the actual movement from RPM of the shaft.
Wipers are slower, but if you get them for free, use them. I think with the standard 30mm lever on them, it translates to about 150mm per second.
I recall @eaorobbie has the 12v 200 watt dc motors on his shoulder mount seat mover. He uses the 25:1 gearbox and a 65mm CTC lever. I believe he gets about 500mm per second linear speed of motion. Loaded
I use 40 mm on the same motors CTC levers and I get about 250-300mm linear speed motor. Loaded
Larger DC motors quieter, stronger, faster and cheap then SCN actuators.

Thanks for you as well, bsft,
good news if i don't need damping, but please link me a video with DC motor [or big wiper] where the vibration simulation is as fast as it is with an SCN5. Though my wiper motor has easily bigger power [i can give it 24 Volts] than an SCN has.
I even thought of that this damping rubber is storing energy, that is the secret of SCN5. MAybe it is wrong, but what if it helps the motor moving under load? it can move more at a sudden, putting energy into the rubber. Don't know. The only reason would be that SCN is breaking easily? And they are afraid to admit?
I could not find any big DC motor seatmover video where you can see SCN like motion, please send me one, and I can continue welding

We have already told you why they use dampeners for on SCn actuators. Also the SCN5 has a 3mm drive pin that can break and be costly to replace.
Videos as requested
Robs sim


more videos in next post

My sims


Wipers run at 50-60 rpm at the shaft.
The motors we run are 160-180 rpm, at the shaft.

Rubber does not store energy, it absorbs it.
Comparison in costs.
A pair of SCN5 with wiring and power supplies about $1200 for the pair.
DC motors and JRKS including Pots, about $500 for the pair.
Ive had my dc motors under weight loads that would shatter a SCN. The DC motors survived no problems

It is convincing, Rob is almost out of his seat
By the way, which is better for the belt, a constant strong force, holding you to the seat, or a spring, which is tense only under braking, simulating yet another force on you?

I think @Nick Moxley has belts on his, I will let him answer that.

Yes, rubber may absorb more than it stores, but I thought that it modifies the whole mechanical system, maybe helping, but you convinced me.
But why is SCN5 so glorified then, with the sound of a group of ducklings?

Dunno, I do know they look good and are relatively easy to set up. @nclabs can fill you in more on SCN setup.
DC motors and JRKs cheaper, but require a bit more fiddling to set up.

The PID software maybe key as well, good systems are giving you fast controlled vibrations, maybe because of good braking and reverse braking. And the worst seatmovers are those slow, yet swagging swaying swinging ones.

@Thread, A dampener is used “to dampen”. Look in a dictionary and you will see that dampen means: to check or diminish the activity or vigor of : deaden. There is no need for you to take my or someone else’s word for it anymore.

And, if you want to find something that will perform similarly to scn5’s, research their specs, then find components that will equal or better those specs. The only reason scn5’s are “glorified” imho is that they are one of very few practically all in one off the shelf actuator solutions that works fairly well with seat moving racing simulators. But that’s not to say that there aren’t better solutions!

True on that. The JRK has an industrial PID code built in and we can adjust in utility software.
The PID code for arduino has to be written and so far, no arduino code has matched the performance of a JRK. But I am sure someone will figure out ard code.
Do you have comparison videos of "swagging swaying ones " simulators?

Maybe it is all marketing, that it will feel more real, less digitized.

What about SMC3?

now i don't find, but have seen some, where the problem was i think
-weak motors
-wrong geometry [i will angle my wipers, like simxp with scn5]
-bad PID
-frame not stable enough and bending, jumping

I think that the main reason for the glorification of SCN5/6 is the "quality" of the movement. I will try to explain myself. Large DC motors are quiter, stronger and with the right lever even faster then a SCN actuator, but one thing is the "power" and another it's the control of the power. Large motor are strong but the have a large mass to stop and to accelerate (on rotation, that make linear movement in SCNs), so when you want that your simulator sticks on the value of the game, it's better to have reactive hardware, and for this reason the stopping and accelerating reaction of SCNs are top level. The second reason is the control precision of the movement. The SCN's sensor unit is VERY precise. Can you see how many holes there are in that wheel (see attachment)? If I turn that wheel from an hole to another I can't even feel any difference on the stroke of the actuator (but there is). That is a sub millimeter (really sub) precision. Sorry if I didn't do the math, it's a value that can be calculated, but I think I made the point. That is the level of precision these things have. If you ask me if this precision is demanded for our kind of application, I would reply that I don't know, I think it's on our opinion of the kind of movement we try to reach.

Do you want to see a swaying simulator?