Copyright discussion - DIY DisplayXR - McLaren PCU-6C replica

I think that McLaren brand is a registered brand worldwide, same for PCU-6C registered TM.
Did you guys asked permission to use those big logos ?
Maybe in Spain there are different laws about the international copyright... who can know ?
Yes i agree, is a DIY project, not an article to sell... just a PCB to sell...
Please guys, share with us the part list with components cost and, do i need some MCU programmer for put the firmware ?
I noticed another particular... it's an HID device with USB 2.0 connection, did you guys paid USB.org asking for uniques VID and PID (VendorID, ProductID) for your device ? If not, you choosed a VID and PID combination random... so a unlegal USB device that can create conflict with other USB pheripherals ! Last but not at least, which precautions are used about EMC ? Do that unit prevent/regulate the electro-magnetic emissions ?? 48Mhz (USB 2.0 freq) is a little bit high to forget the EMC...
Good job guys, and good luck with laws.

lol

Re: DisplayXR - McL PCU-6C replica

flyer, it´s realy necesary to do wath you are doing?
If you don´t like DisplayXR, why don´t you try building your own Display?

Re: DisplayXR - McL PCU-6C replica

I think you should think about what you are saying.

Yes i agree, is a DIY project, not an article to sell... just a PCB to sell...

You just proved your points falls. They are not copying anything and they are not selling anything related to McLaren. Where did you get that from? Anything that is DIY, you can do whatever. I can make my exact copy of any electronic device, steal the PCB plans, firmware and schematic without interfering with any laws (maybe not for the stealing part). If I am not selling it and making it for my own use, nobody can sue me. Leave alone if you are in an other country...

And please educate yourself about EMI and RF before you make such comments. Especially on your first post.

Re: DisplayXR - McL PCU-6C replica

They provided the pcb layout free of charge (in Gerber format).
http://downloads.xtremeracers.net/XRdis ... vorota.rar

So I guess they didnt sell the pcbs. They just may have organised some private group order for the pcbs, as they are quite expensive, if one orders just a single one from an etching service.
Still a non-commercial project afaik.

Regarding the USB devices. As long as they dont sell them, they can pretty much DIY what they want.

However, where are the big logos anyway?

Re: DisplayXR - McL PCU-6C replica

Hi Frakk,

You are quite correct. In most countries, no legal action can be brought against you for reproducing a commercial product for your own use. It is only when you reproduce a commercial product and try to sell it (and in some countries, even give it) to others that you can get yourself into trouble. Please note that when I say give it, I am not referring to plans, but to a complete product. The only time that I am aware of that you can get into problems giving away plans for something is if you reverse engineered a patent protected commercial product and distributed the plans.

Another obvious exception to the above is something that has a license agreement.

There are many advantages to being a DIY'r! For example, As a DIY'r, I am easily able to obtain and use a low cost non CE / ROHS compliant power supply. However, as a business, I am unable to sell or export products that do not meet these requirements in most countries. It is costly to meet these requirements in many cases, which ultimately adds to the cost of a commercial product. The inspection process alone (as I'm sure you are aware) can cost thousands. I think that this is one of the reasons why a DIY project can always be more cost effective.



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Re: DisplayXR - McL PCU-6C replica

Bernard, you don't have to reverse engineer a patented product, the engineering is all public. One filing for a patent has to make all details of the product available. If you go on any sites that list the existing patents, you can download manuals, blueprints, specification and every detail on what is actually patented. This is great for us!

I don't want to hijack the original thread with all this legal stuff, but I'll add this more:

Patents will not protect a design. Patents will only give the right to sue people or companies using your design. And even then, the smallest change will make it a new product, so there isn't really a point. You see this every day with fake, lookalike electronics (and everything else) coming from China.

As far as this project is concerned, there is absolutely no argument to be made about trademarks, copyrights or patents for numerous reasons like:
-It is not a product.
-They are not selling a design, either their own, neither anyone else's. Everything is free to use.
-The only thing they ask money for is the manufacturing price of the PCB's and labor, there is no copyright in that.
-Even if they sold PCB's for someone else's publicly available design, they would only be selling the material, labor, shipping and handling, packaging, etc, and NOT the design itself.

Having said that, all the props to those who contribute these great projects to the community! Otherwise we couldn't feed the family after having all that money spent on sim gear.

Re: DisplayXR - McL PCU-6C replica

Quite true, the cross border issues are difficult to defend against. In the U.S., the biggest gorilla tends to win. Long story short, the bigger company keeps the smaller company (regardless of small changes) tied up in litigation until the smaller company (or individual) is bankrupt trying to defend themselves. I think thats why large companies get patents, and small companies tend to not bother. The moral of the story is, be careful who you ripoff. If they are big enough and motivated to, they WILL sink you. If you doubt this, make a knock-off of some Microsoft or Logitech hardware and try selling it publically. :rofl:

I guess we are pretty far off topic here though As everyone seems to agree, there isnt much of a legal issue here.

Re: DisplayXR - McL PCU-6C replica

Ok guys, maybe i talk a dead language or ?!? Who said that is copied from the PCU-6C ? I talked about registered brand and mark, of course, you can copy a product and, if not selled, no problem...
I read in thread name DisplayXR - McLaren PCU-6C replica, can you ? Well PCU-6C is a registered TM, so commercial or not, nobody worlwide can use it ! Go to read more about it...

Than go to USB.org, download the developers docs and read, read, read.... So you will find out that is not possible to assign arbitrary PID/VID to a USB Hid device, because if so, you will damage not only your device stability, but most important, ALL OTHER USB DEVICES, released and selled from companies that HAS PAID FOR THOSE UNIQUE NUMBERS ! So in this case DIY or not , anything change.

And more, please teach me about EMI , RF... i want to learn... and PLEASE, start to explain where is the power choke coil on USB power for reduce the emissions... where is mate ? OHHHH, now it's clear, since is a DIY you can irradiate all you want around your home, really ? YES, i agree, you can since is not a commercial product... Now i start to study, during that, you can start to use a oscilloscope to watch what that pcb does when you use it... absolute unbelievable ! If you don t have one, try with a AM radio, is good enough....ahahahahahahah. What we are talking about ???

Please stop with bullshit, respect rules and get a life.

Re: DisplayXR - McL PCU-6C replica

#Frakk

I can make my exact copy of any electronic device, steal the PCB plans, firmware and schematic without interfering with any laws (maybe not for the stealing part). If I am not selling it and making it for my own use, nobody can sue me.

You joking really ?

You can ONLY because nobody will know that you did it that for your home... exactly like the thief that does robbery without any eyes around...

Have you never done electronic measurements in your life ?

Re: DisplayXR - McL PCU-6C replica

#willynovi

yes, it's necessary ! Use the serial port and cable if you don t want to pay 2K dollars to USB.org and respect who did it. Don t use registered trademarks for divulgate your DIY, you have a custom name (DisplayXR) use it, is good enough. NOT PCU-6C replica, because we all know the power of search engines...
And i can ONLY suggest you to study better the schematic, so you will easy know why a power chocke coil is NECESSARY on that circuit.

Re: DisplayXR - McL PCU-6C replica

now i'm speechless and a little sad, because i just know which destiny i will got on this forum... but is better to be kicked saying good and right things than the silence only for protect the fucken DIY project !

Cheers

Re: DisplayXR - McL PCU-6C replica

Flyer, X-Sim is not the place to talk about how DisplayXR is made, I think you could ask all your question in the righ place. I know you are doing that, so let people in this forum in calme. Thank you.

regards, Willy

Re: DisplayXR - McL PCU-6C replica

The bottom line is:

-Don't come here and start bashing other's projects and hard work. This is a community where people help each other's projects.

-Everything here is a DIY solution, which you might guess is about low cost and functionality. We don't care about USB licenses and EMI classifications. As long as the device works as it should, and doesn't cause functional problems and interferences, there is no point worrying about these.

-Provide suggestions and point out what you think is a problem. Be positive and make constructive comments.

-Back up your arguments with supporting material.

Until you do this, there is really no point for further discussion.


And for the record, I'm an electronic engineering technician (whatever that means in your country), completing a higher degree in the same field. And yes, I have taken some measurements before.

Re: DisplayXR - Similar at an McL F1 Display

There's no worst deaf than who does not want to hear...

BTW, to be constructive here i must shut up... :tape:

Re: DisplayXR - Similar at an McL F1 Display

Hear what? I am very interested in your points if you can back them up and I am open for any type of discussion. To be constructive you have to provide information and suggestions with respect and a positive attitude, and also accept other's opinion and point of view.

So far you haven't given us any quotes, sources, any links to official documents, your background and reference, or anything that would give you credit for what you say.

As I said, I am happy to discuss anything if you are willing to back your arguments up.

Re: DisplayXR - Similar at an McL F1 Display

This thread is getting to be counter-productive and frankly annoying. Debating a technology or idea is one thing, but I think we need draw the line at personal bashing. I would like to see X-Sim remain as an open friendly environment where people are not afraid to share their ideas or to throw out unshaped ideas for comment. When personal attacks, swearing, etc.. come into play, we make others less likely to come here and share their ideas, which means that we are killing X-Sim.

I would like to suggest that we close this thread, have a beer and move along.

Re: Copyright discussion - DIY DisplayXR - McLaren PCU-6C replic

*copyright discussion has been splitted from the DisplayXR thread, and placed in the off-topic section*