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Compact 3DOF AC Motor Platform

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Roadster2, Oct 30, 2015.

  1. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

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    After a 12 month break due to personal reasons I'm trying to get myself interested in sim racing again and once again thinking of adding motion to my Race-Star cockpit. I'm hopeful that I can gain some useful information from some of the well experienced members that have helped here.

    I'm considering a 3DOF motion platform using AC motors and in my searches have come across a reasonably compact design from MotionSystems in Poland -

    (version 1)



    (version 2.0)



    You'll see that there's no central cylinder or spring.

    In the first video, which looks to use motor/gearbox units along the lines of those linked to below, I can't see the Inverters, there is a box in the background but this doesn't look big enough to be holding them. Also what's the small box with the cable coming out situated on the rear of the motors (just interested as to what this might be). In the second video the Inverters look to be attached to the motors.

    This particular model (PS-3TM-750) looks to have been superseded but this one would be easier to make than their new, very expensive models.

    To keep the costs down I've come across these motors, gearboxes and Inverters. Can anyone confirm whether or not these would be Ok ?

    Motor - https://www.inverterdrive.com/group/Motors-AC/TECA2-802-4-B34-IE2-750W-80-frame-4-pole-AC-Motor/
    Gearbox (35rpm output) - https://www.inverterdrive.com/group/Gearboxes/TEC-FCNDK63-35RPM-right-angled-Gearbox-750W/
    Inverter - Mitsubishi D720 https://www.inverterdrive.com/group/AC-Inverter-Drives-230V/Mitsubishi-FR-D720S-042SC-EC/
    - or TECO E510 https://www.inverterdrive.com/group/AC-Inverter-Drives-230V/Teco-E510-201-H1F/


    Will these motors/gearbox units require any positional feedback sensor or encoder system ?

    All help will be greatly appreciated, thanks
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  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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  3. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

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    In reply to a question from Tom (@cthiggin) re the output torque being something to give consideration to: the information on the gearbox linked to above quotes 35rpm and 136Nm. There is however a 30rpm version which is quoted at 159Nm so I assume that this one would be preferable ?
  4. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Search ebay /UK for good refurbished cheaper 1Hp geared motors ... You have SEW in UK and they are the best .:thumbs
    the above links seems having only 1 in stock piece per each :confused:.

    Yes the 159Nm axial torque is very strong ... that means you can left a 159Kg weight with a ~> 1 m. arm before stalling @ the 1m. arm distance .
    • Informative Informative x 2
  5. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

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    Hi Speedy. Thanks for the response, and for the info on the torque. SEW-Eurodrive are the best but are also exceptionally expensive. A quote on smaller motors for a 2DOF platform 2 years ago was well over £800 each plus carriage and VAT (20%). Suitable SEW motors don't come up on eBay very often and again are usually not cheap, and of course I need to source three of them. If I can obtain suitable new motors at the pricing given in the above links then I could replace them fairly regularly, if needed of course, and still be way cheaper.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
  6. yeniuser

    yeniuser Member

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    Sir
    How can we consider friction loss on the gears? How can the torque be affected ?
    Regards
  7. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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  8. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    If I understand the question right then this needs to be answered by the maker of the gears ... as Big companies are racing each others on making their motors and gearbox more power efficient products ... so that depends on the performance and calibration parameters and tests they do in the quality control section .

    We consumers take the labeled product for what is written on it ... and maintaining the safe operation requirements & conditions [ Like keeping the gearbox oil filled & ambient temperature down ] so we have the listed performance required .
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

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  10. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Yes that one had a break on its back and you don't need it ... but I couldn't resist sending the link to you especially with that price :) .

    You can still contact that guy and get yourself some good motors as you already know the speed n torque specifications needed ...

    Take some 4-6 sides photos for the suggested motor before buying "If possible" ... just for more advising if needed ...
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2015
  11. cthiggin

    cthiggin Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    And fellows,
    IF you could find USED Sew Motors with "Helical GearHeads".............you would be batting 1000..............they are the "ultimate" with virtually ZERO gear backlash.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

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    Hi Tom. So S Type is "Helical Worm, Right Angle" and K Type is "Helical Bevel, Right Angle (compact, highly efficient, high torque, low speed)"
    Looks like K Type are the ones to go for, if the price is affordable.
  13. cthiggin

    cthiggin Active Member

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    Iain,
    Yes sir..................but to "find them" and "to afford them" may not be a reality...............out of this world expensive.
    I am finding with my Boston Gearheads, Worm Gear, I only have a +- 1/16" slack, which is minimal for what "we DIY'ers" are doing...
    and IMHO, very affordable, and WILL get the job done.

    You can get "that type" (not SEW) through China outlets, and they're pretty reasonable, but in my case, the shipping was more than the item........

    Tom
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  14. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

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    Hi Speedy. I think I've sourced some brand new Helical bevel gear gearbox/motor units at a good price. I have some info and drawings on the gearbox (29rpm, 28mm double shaft output, 232Nm Torque). Just waiting for more info on the motors to arrive (0.75Kw, 4 pole, three phase) and I'll pm the details over to see what you think. These are £253 plus VAT each.
  15. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

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    The motors quoted for are TEC B14 units but they also have Crompton Greaves Apex IE2 motors (0.75kw 4 pole 3 phase). They're about £50 each more expensive but a better motor I think. The Helical gear gearboxes are TKM48B, specifications as above. They have also quoted on HEDY inverters so I'm just inquiring which model.

    Do these motor/gearbox combinations look good ?
    Crompton Greaves Apex Motor.JPG TKM48B Helical Gearbox Right-angled.JPG
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I guess the TEC B14 are just fine .
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    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  17. furiano

    furiano New Member

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    I want one that also
  18. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

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    Hi All. Got info on the Inverters that I've been quoted on; these are HEDY HD700-20D00070 at £115 plus VAT each (think it should be 20D00075 and not 20D00070 ?). Are these Ok and/or are there others I should be looking at that may be similar price but possibly better.

    Thanks

    Edit: found these online at £96 plus VAT
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  19. glumph

    glumph New Member

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    Hello,
    I think 159NM = 15.9 kg 1 m
    or
    159kg 10cm.
    I am wrong ???
  20. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    1 kilogram-force metre = 9.80665 N·m, here is a handy calculator: http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/torque/newtonm.html

    159NM = kilogram-force meter 16.21

    159NM = kilogram-force centimeter 1,621