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Car chassis project

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by sim2go, Aug 29, 2017.

  1. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    Hello community.
    I heard great responses about this forum and wanted ask for help.
    Hope to get suggestions and advises moving forward, so created separated thread.

    To keep things short, some pictures of 2 axis simulator incomplete motion frame.

    Intro -

    Pitch axis
    [​IMG]

    Yaw axis
    [​IMG]

    Movement -
    [​IMG]

    To make Yaw axis stable added few wheels.
    [​IMG]

    Question -
    Things came to balancing pitch axis and I can't think of ways how to do it.
    There will be one or two people sitting in a car. This will lead to different weights and different balance point. How to even the weights to put least stress on motors (2-4 wiper motors connected somewhere near front of the car)? Would adjustable tension springs help or worsen situation? What do you think?
    Thanks
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  2. Gadget999

    Gadget999 Active Member

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    crikey that will be a heavy simulator

    are you using hydraulics to move the car ?
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  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Wiper motors would not be able to move such a mass at a suitable speed for motion simulation.

    Do you have an idea of what the planned total mass would be?
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  4. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Vive

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    Now that is thinking really big! But Noorbeast is right - wiper motors won't come anywhere close to being able to move that around with any kind of speed or responsiveness.

    That kind of mass is more in line with big industrial robotics and will take big expensive motors and controllers. Maybe even hydraulics as Gadget mentioned would be appropriate to move that beastie. But it will be an amazing thing to behold!
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    You obviously had a few car parts kicking around and said lets build a simulator - How hard can it be... You have come to us for advice possibly a touch late :). I'm guessing you don't have a massive budget to go with your massive sim :think.
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  6. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    Thanks for replies, I'll have to rethink some options.
    While I strogly agree with powerfull motor moving yaw axis, but I still do think pitch axis could be moved with less than hydraulics option. With two people in and balanced pivot point (that metal rod w/ bearings) I'm still able to tilt car forwards and backwards with unmeasurable "one finger force" within latidude approx 12 cm (+6/-6) without getting loads of innertia. Aim is not get fast jerking, but rather smoothed feeling of chassis tilting. I'll try first, then come back with more powerfull motors question I believe :) thanks again!
    P.S. if you still have ideas for easier adjustment of balance point - share it!!
    P.S.S gif is not displaying in first post, any ideas why?
  7. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Tried lifting up pitch axis with simple wiper motor and I would say it worked "okay-ish".

    [​IMG]

    This is because pitch axis has adjustable balance point. Lack of power came up when more weight was put on one side got heavier (passenger in). I read trough DC motors and their controllers, but didn't find any proper application to this (not to say trying to sync not one but few of them).

    As posts suggested look'd upon AC motors and found out Thanos amc1280usb controller, got trough this posted information, but still have some questions to ask.

    I'm looking at WEG motor(s), their reducers and CFW10 VFD, because my location and distributor would allow faster return(s), exchanges(s) if I lack in power or need to change parts.

    To be more precise I came down to 1,1kW (1,5hp) motor(s) suggested in their list of motor(s).
    Example link
    There are 2 pole 3000 rpm, 4 pole 1500 rpm, 6 pole 1000 rpm versions of this motor.
    My question would be - what is the right decision picking motor and its reducer (gearbox) (outputs ~20-25rpm) by selecting number of poles? How much the noise changes by adding more poles?

    Now by looking at CFW10 VFD I can't find its measurement in kw or hp. If 1,5 hp motor needs 2hp VFD, what will be equivalent in AMPs ? (info displayed in AMPs).

    I would appreciate answers, suggestions or any ideas. Thanks!
  8. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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  9. Limongi

    Limongi Member

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    How about simply building two seat movers inside the chassis ? You'd get the fun added realism of a 1:1 cockpit and lots of responsive feedback from wiper motors without having to go full amusement park grade with it.
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  10. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017
  11. simupp

    simupp New Member Gold Contributor

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    Hello @sim2go !. Fantastic project !. With AC motors and VFD are you using arduino ?. In my project I'm using arduino + VFD + AC motors. I'll think comunicate arduino with VFD through modbus. Do you think this is a good way?. Thanks.
  12. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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  13. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    Can anyone confirm that connection sequence?

    Motor+reducer -> VFD -> PWM 0-10V Digital to Analog Signal Transformer (eBay) -> Arduino Uno -> SimTools?
  14. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    Yes, but the flow of data goes the other way, it starts at SimTools -> ... - > Motor+reducer.
    yobuddy
  15. baykah

    baykah Active Member

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    I'd say
    SimTools => Arduino (generating PWM) => VFD => Motor => Potentiometer => Arduino
    (You have the close loop arduino => arduino)
  16. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Had some tests in 1 axis movement, lots still to do.
    (picture link below)

    https://i.imgur.com/6N9dOBV.gif

    Wanted to ask about VFD and braking resistor(s) - if VFD will run on lowest acceleration/decceleration times it will increase VFD temps and it will overheat?
    Would proper tension springs solve this issue? Ive seen few projects running well without BRs.

    Thank You in advance
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  17. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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  18. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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  19. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    wanted to ask about gearbox backlash smoothing. in this case lever is 18cm and backlash is about 1cm rougly. this gives "oscillation" when lever goes from max to min position or otherwise, get a little bouncing until position is found. what filter could make things smoother?
    thank You
  20. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Some backlash is inherent in worm gearboxes design, multiplied by the lever length.

    Have you considered a shorter CTC on the lever, as 1cm backlash is huge?