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Question Advice on new motor setup

Discussion in 'Motor actuators and drivers' started by yellofella, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. yellofella

    yellofella Member

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    hi guys
    I've been looking at upgrading my motors, drivers and power supplies as I'm still using the same wiper motors that I got out of a few pug 206's 6 years ago. They have served me well till now but feel there getting a bit tired as the no load rpm has dropped a fair bit. think the new pedals have proved a bit much for them. I've looked all through the site to try and find the info I need but haven't been successful.. Anyway I'm looking for advice on what would be the best setup for me. I know that there is no one solution that works for all sims as they all have different geometry but thought if I added some pics of my sim then we might be able to have a good guess( I can give measurements if needed).
    The setup I'm looking at getting is 3 gear motors from pgsaw on ebay with the 50:1 gear boxes(75/80Rpm) but am not sure weather id do better getting the 25:1 (150/160Rpm gearboxes)but worried about not having enough torque if I do.
    any advice here would help as ive already agreed to buy them but I'm sure he would swop the order if ive got it wrong....
    I'm also looking at driving them with 3 moto monsters in half bridge with 3 480w led power supplies and using 10awg cable and appropriate connectors.
    money isn't really a factor as I've spent over £5000 on my sim now so just want to get the best solution I can but at the same time re use some of what I'm using now (single power supply and 2 moto monsters) if possible IMG_0065.JPG
    this is my sim as it sits now IMG_0064.JPG
    IMG_0063.JPG
    hope this helps people give me some ideas and all suggestions are welcome....
    yellofella, Feb 8, 2018
    #1
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    noorbeast, Feb 8, 2018
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  3. yellofella

    yellofella Member

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    thanks @noorbeast for your quick reply.
    ive been using sim calc for a while now trying to get an idea as to what motors would be best for me. the problem is that sim calc produces lots of numbers but haven't got any idea as to how much that is in the real world. I mean using the 50:1 motors in sim calc it says the motor will output 500mm/s which is great but how much is 264lbs of equivalent force of my actuator. is that a little/ a lot, I have no idea. Also sim calc says with the geometry of my sim the pitch efficiency should be 95% which sounds good but is 367lbs of pitch force enough. I have the tilton 600 triple pedal set from simcraft and the brake and clutch are quite heavy as there real car pedals.
    If I went for the 25:1 motors sim calc says id have 1000mm/s(massive amount) and 168lbs of equivalent force of my actuator. is that enough?
    was hopeing that people on here might have purchased these motors and have roughly the same sort of sim that they might be able to give me some feedback as to the pros and cons of both motors before I spend nearly £400 on them with taxes and shipping them to the uk.
    which ones would you get if you were me?
    yellofella, Feb 8, 2018
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  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    The 25:1s and 50:1s have both been used with success in your style of sim, the 50:1s suit bigger users and perhaps the likes of @shannonb1 can comment as I believe he uses the 50:1s.

    The 25:1s are more easily back driven than the 50:1s.

    The shorter the CTC lever length for a given design the less noticeable the worm gearbox backlash is.

    Can you please post pictures of the SimCalc inputs you are using.
    noorbeast, Feb 9, 2018
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  5. yellofella

    yellofella Member

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    here you go buddy

    upload_2018-2-8_23-17-40.png


    upload_2018-2-8_23-20-3.png

    Attached Files:

    yellofella, Feb 9, 2018
    #5
  6. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    I can't think in imperial so it would be helpful if you switch to metric.

    Disregarding mechanical loss, to know what Newtons it will take to move something it will be Mass (kg) x Acceleration (m/s) = F (N). So to move 100kg at 0.7 m/s needs 70 N. It takes 9.8N per kg to counteract gravity. Keep in mind there is significant mechanical loss in things like the gearbox, depending on the ratio you may want to allow between 10% to 50% loss for worm gears and the greater the gear ratio the higher the % loss is: http://www.meadinfo.org/2008/11/gear-efficiency-spur-helical-bevel-worm.html

    I don't have the pgsaw motors but suspect that at 180W @ 50:1 30nm is likely more realistic, based on the Motion Dynamic chart (and I do have the 25:1, 50:1 and 60:1 from MD):

    [​IMG]
    noorbeast, Feb 9, 2018
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  7. yellofella

    yellofella Member

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    ok so I guess I'm leaning toward the 50:1 motors as originally planned. like u say there could be up to 50% losses in the worm drive. I think the 25:1 might be a risk as torque is what I'm short of. When I brake hard on the sim I can stop the wiper motors from turning at the moment.
    yellofella, Feb 9, 2018
    #7