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Showroom 2DOF motion base for Playseat

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Jymä, Nov 2, 2014.

  1. Jymä

    Jymä Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi everybody.

    I'm pretty close to finishing my sim so I decided to share my steps now. First of all I have to thank this community for making this possible. I read these forums and used my time gathering information much more than building this took. But still I have been planning and doing this for about 3 months now.

    My basic idea was to make the it similar to Erwan960's and Floriske.nl's with motors mounted on the front. It seemed the easiest way because I wanted a full frame sim and had the Playseat already with Thrustmaster controls. Also this structure takes less space in a room than a rear mounted sim.

    First I wanted to do it with really low cost and made a "prototype" with VW wiper motors and single Moto Monster. It didn't work very well and if you would like to know more you can read it here.
    IMG_4197.JPG

    Anyway I got pretty frustrated with it and ordered big worm gear motors from MotionControl UK. They are pretty damn strong: 80rpm on the shaft with 60:1 gearbox (DC motor is 4800rpm). So they need a lot of juice too. Here is a comparison:
    IMG_4198.JPG

    Then it was pretty lucky that Pit had made a tutorial on using Moto Monsters as a half bridges on spring. It felt the optimal solution for me because I had got a few of them cheap from ebay. I took some pictures of how I attached heatsinks to those Moto Monsters. I think this is pretty easy and decent way. I had some video card memory heatsinks laying around and thermal tape (I use them with PC water cooling and universal GPU waterblock). They are pretty cheap and the tape should work fine and effectively unless the Moto Monsters get extremely hot but that will be seen. I also installed some random heatsink from ebay to the back of the Moto Monster. A couple of pictures:
    IMG_4217.JPG
    IMG_4221.JPG
    IMG_4224.JPG

    Next there are some pics of the build. The first pic is the u-joint (with spots for trampoline springs) and the motor brackets. The second pic is finding the balance point (from RacingMat's tutorial). The balance point was on the black mark when I sat on it. Onwards I don't have so detailed pics from single parts but of how they get installed on the board.
    IMG_4233.JPG
    IMG_4231.JPG
    IMG_4234.JPG
    IMG_4241.JPG
    IMG_4248.JPG
    The last picture shows the springs on the U-joint and everything is pretty much attached except the ballrods, potentiometers and the PSUs (I'm waiting for the second one). Picture shows that you can access electronics pretty easily just by removing the ballrods from the front and lifting.

    Next picture is more detailed about the way I planned to install the potentiometers. I think the bracket is enough flexible (and moves with motor bracket) so the potentiometers won't tear so easily.
    IMG_4258.JPG

    I'm pretty satisfied with the build. Everything is stronger and better than in the "prototype" so I hope this would be durable. I tested the other motor which has the PSU and it moves very nicely with Pit's half bridge Moto Monster setup. I'm very excited to try it because the second PSU should arrive in a few days and then I can install the final parts. Hoping that everything works then :think.

    I am mostly driving Assetto Corsa and this sim would go on front of a TV first. I probably won't make a display setup for it because I'm waiting to buy Oculus Rift CV1. I also have some improvements on mind. Maybe later I will try to add bass shakers to it and maybe maybe in the future 3rd DOF with traction loss.

    The electronics:
    2x Motion Control UK 80rpm 60:1 worm gear motors 12V 23A
    2x Moto Monster H-bridge (1 for each motor)
    2x HP DPS-600PB 12v 47A PSU (1 for each Moto Monster)
    1x Arduino Uno R3 (with RufusDufus' SMC3 interface)
    2x Bourns 5k Cermet potentiometers
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  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Nice job @Jymä, I will be looking forward to an update when the PSU arrives and you can finish your sim :thumbs
  3. Jymä

    Jymä Member Gold Contributor

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    Thanks @noorbeast

    I received the PSU yesterday and installed last parts. First I had a problem with the second motor, but that was because I had not connected +5V and ground for the second Moto Monster. I thought they were only for the potentiometers but Moto Monster needed them too :oops:. Anyway, all seems to be working well. :cheers Motors have a lot of grunt even the SMC3 has PMWMax limit set quite low. Motors and Moto Monsters make barely any heat and PSU fans stay quiet enough.
    IMG_4260.JPG
    IMG_4267.JPG

    I think I have managed to get sway, surge and pitch working quite nicely, but heave and roll needs some tuning. Roll seems to be most off the point. If I set motors to move to opposite directions with roll effect (isn't roll supposed to work like sway?), the seat is usually tilted even on straights.
    These are my settings now:
    SMC3.jpg
    SimTools.jpg

    In the next videos I was supposed to have sway, surge, pitch and heave enabled. But I had put roll accidentally to heave's spot. I think both roll axis had that square checked on SimTools and forces were 20%. I didn't mean to do that but actually in the video the effects were pretty nice imo, even though I don't know what roll actually did there.





    Please say if you think I should adjust some settings and in which direction. :)
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  4. bsft

    bsft

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    Roll is the camber of the track. Set roll on its own, turn all other forces to 0 , then go to a track in a game that has nice camber, go slowly around the track and also off the track into a ditch if it has it, the car should lean in the direction of it going into the ditch or off track.
    Roll is different from sway.
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  5. Jymä

    Jymä Member Gold Contributor

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    @bsft Ok, I think I got roll working quite nicely now. I changed all settings in my last post a bit. I also enabled heave. It transmits bumps on the track very nicely. :) Maybe one of the strongest and best effects I have now. I guess I'll have to work more with other effects. Maybe lower surge and sway range % in Axis assignment and lower max/min in Tuning center too to get stronger short-range movements. I will move the sim to my place and take a new video when I'm happy with the settings.

    There is also a little bit of loose that can be felt especially with small sway effects. Of course some of it might come from the gears in the motor but I feel that the ballrods give some too. I think I might order some rod ends with rubber to test ( picture ). The uniballs move so lightly. I maybe should check the pretension in the motors too.

    EDIT: I guess the other arm that is fixed in the motor axle by bolt might have some loose. I have to check it.

    EDIT2: Yeah that bolt had some loose. I put there slightly bigger and its good for now. There is still a very little amount of loose coming mostly from movement of rod ends, but I don't think that I can do much about it.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2014
  6. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    Nice to see an other one using the double power of the mm :). As well nice idea to cool them from bottom up!
    Fiddling out the best settings needs time, so be patient if it is not as it should be at the beginning. After months I still discovered better settings by learning and experiencing. Good work!
  7. Scratch

    Scratch Active Member

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    Whoo, nice! Glad you got your motor problems sorted. What is the prize of those motors with postages?
  8. Jymä

    Jymä Member Gold Contributor

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    Thanks @Pit and @Scratch !
    I don't know will the heatsink under Moto Monster do much, but it didn't hurt to try. There wont be much of airflow. I got the idea from IBT2 H-bridge which has heatsink in the back.

    I guess my old wiper motors were just too weak which caused the problem. A pair of new motors cost circa 210€ with shipping. I bought them here. A right and a left hand model. Shipping costs were combined a bit for both. They were delivered straight home in a week. These motors will draw much more power than wiper motors so PSU or H-bridge upgrades might be necessary too. They are a bit overkill for a seat mover in my opinion. 25:1 gearbox and 2400-3600rpm motor might have faster movements with less power draw. But these will have lots of torque to throw you around if needed. :)
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  9. bsft

    bsft

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    Nice strong motors, yes upgrade h-bridge. Those motors should spike at 45 amps if the settings are right.
    Just work with the motion profile to get the new motors snappy.
    I think you will find the motors are faster than the wipers, so you will be in action in no time
  10. Luimp

    Luimp New Member

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    Very good build :thumbs
  11. Rainer

    Rainer New Member

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    Your rig looks awesome! :thumbs
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  12. flyingdingy

    flyingdingy Member

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    Rig looks good!
    Exactly which motors and drive did you buy? (drive is ok, I find that one)
    I am trying to find the combo you got at http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co.uk but have a hard time sourcing the motors.... could you please post link to motor and drive?
  13. Jymä

    Jymä Member Gold Contributor

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    Thanks all! Motors are actually for sale only on their ebay site. I had a link on my previous post ;). Here (left hand) and here (right hand). These are from the exact datasheet:

    Peak torque: 30NM
    Torque: 15NM
    Speed (unloaded):85rpm
    Speed (loaded): 65rpm
    Voltage: 12V DC
    Current (nominal):23A
    Current (peak):40A
    Motor speed: 5100rpm
    Gear ratio: 60:1
    Nominal power: 180W

    The datasheet also says that the shaft and gear are steel, but the worm gear is delrin.
  14. flyingdingy

    flyingdingy Member

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    Great, thank you! I'll order one of each! :)
    Are you satisfied with their performance? They are quick (even with 60:1) and strong enough?

    Could you post the settings you have ended up with that you are satisfied with?
    I will build more or less a copy of your setup, probably begin building as soon as the motors are recieved (already got the JRK's, powersupply and so on) , but I am planning on also adding a 3'd DoF, traction loss, but do it a little different, by putting the turn point in the front of the simualtor instead of rotate it at the pivot point, using a steering knuckle or similar at the front and small rubber wheels at the back and a motor that push the rear back and forth.
  15. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    For traction loss, Dont skimp out of cheap Castor's Get one's that are bearing supported and decent quality.
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  16. Erwan960

    Erwan960 Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Could you please tell us if there is a slot for a key on the shaft ?
    [​IMG]
  17. bsft

    bsft

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    Dunno, ask the motor supplier
  18. Jymä

    Jymä Member Gold Contributor

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    @Erwan960 There is actually 8mm hole on the shaft. And the shaft is 20mm thick.
    IMG_4201.JPG
    I attached the lever with a tightly fitting spacer and 8mm bolt. You can see it from the last picture on the first post. The best fitting bolt was one with no threads for that length.

    @flyingdingy I think they are very strong and quick enough for my setup at least. My lever is 55mm hole to hole so a longer one would help with the speed a little. Or positioning them closer to the pivot. They seem to overshoot a little from the target on a fast stop or direction change. I don't have a picture but the 5100rpm motor is harder to brake. Maybe some settings would help with it or just more power. (My PWMMax is 160 of 255 and but it feels strong enough. I also had some shutdowns with more PWMMax but I think that the extension cord had something to do with them.) I tried Kd and Ks settings in SMC3 but they didn't seem to help much with it. Anyway it doesn't really trouble me. I can send picture of the settings later but I think that JRKs might need little different.
  19. bsft

    bsft

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    5100 rpm motor! F... Me. Sounds like my 4500 rpm motors on my actuators, mind you, they are 1:1 drive and they travel about 80mm at linear speed of 270mm per second. I have had problems with mine overshooting as well. Still sorting it with endless PIDS and stuff.
    Will toss the hall effects in the bin next and replace with wire wound pots.
  20. Jymä

    Jymä Member Gold Contributor

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    Yeah, datasheet says 5100rpm though they might not go there with sim use. Maybe high-rpm motors (or 60:1 and 50:1 ratio) just can't change the rpms or direction so fast that they wouldn't overshoot at all. :thinkBut I don't really feel it when I'm playing. Only see it when I'm testing the movements with sliders.