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Is ROBOTEQ AX3500 controller compatible with X-SIM?

Discussion in 'SimTools compatible interfaces' started by EvanF, Aug 7, 2008.

  1. EvanF

    EvanF Member

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    Hi Sirnoname, :hi:

    I am not getting much joy at present counting pulses fast enough to use my optical encoders successfully with either of my actuator designs. I am using Oak Grigsby 100ppr encoders and to be useful for 300mm/sec travel they need to count 2800 pulses in a second, at present they are successful to 100 pulses per second! :( So I am now considering biting the bullet and buying a dedicated brushed DC motor controller. :uups:

    Question: Before I start seriously scraping the bottom of my piggybank, could you advise me on whether the ROBOTEQ AX3500 controller would be compatible with interfacing with X-SIM.
    One of the reasons I like it is you can set the limits of the optical encoders (page 148 of manual) in eeprom.

    Here is the link to the website and user manual in PDF.
    http://roboteq.com/ax3500-folder.html

    Your advice would be hugely appreciated! ;D

    EvanF

    Attached Files:

  2. tronicgr

    tronicgr

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    Hi Evan,

    I've seen these ROBOTEQ controllers before. They are nice but their control set are too complicated to be used directly by the USO module of the x-sim (even from the more advanced USO menu of profiler2.0)

    The control set is in such form that you should write a complete dedicated program module to handle the AX3500 with encoders... This means you can forget USO!!! After all its meant to be used for intelligent robotic systems, not stupid motion simulators... :lol:

    In short, the programming required is not much different from the one is needed by the SCN5!!! (correct me if I'm wrong).

    Sirnoname can verify you this....

    Regards, Thanos
  3. EvanF

    EvanF Member

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    If it can interface, at $US400 it is a very good solution for an interface/optical encoder/60Amp motor controller for 2 DOF motion platform. I have fast enough linear actuators and can get in excess of 300m(m)/sec, I just need a good X-Sim interface motor controller suitable to use with optical encoders.
  4. tronicgr

    tronicgr

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    This is funny... That thats exactly SCN5 motors price! (Motor + controller) :lol:

    Thanos
  5. EvanF

    EvanF Member

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    Hi Thanos,

    Actually no, you can't compare it, this board controls 2 motors up to 60 amps with optical encoder feedback, and misc peripherals if you choose to. Makes it very versatile. I have already linear actuators fit for duty just need the interface.

    Always good to have other options on tap isn't it?
  6. EvanF

    EvanF Member

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    I received this reply from RobotShop, a supplier.
    I have not yet heard back from Roboteq, the manufacturer.

    I am not aware of any other commercial board that is compatible with the profiler/USO interface, does anyone know of one that can plugnplay with optical encoder input and 24v/40amp+ motor controller ?

    The last piece of the puzzle would be to get some advice from Sirnoname.
  7. EvanF

    EvanF Member

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    Hi Sirnoname,
    Thankyou for your very detailed explanation. There is much to think over. I strongly feel there needs(or has) to be a commercial controller board solution available out there for those who want to build a motionsim but feel there are areas in this hobby they would rather let someone make for them so they can concentrate in the areas of their own expertise/interest. I think you would get a lot more followers and users of your software then. I am surprised that with all the choices in the profiler module a commercial board can not interface with X-Sim without extra programming, and we only have one choice donated enthusiastically and generously by Thanos (credit to him :thbup: ).

    I have not heard back from Roboteq but I have heard back from Gamatronix another motor controller choice. Randy has said he will download your software and see if he can make it work with his board. The board details are here
    http://www.gamatronix.com/product_info. ... ucts_id/28
    but there is a side issue for it not to be entirely plugnplay. The H-Bridge is only rated at 3A but he is looking into how we can remove the H-Bridge chip and wire the pwm/fwd-rev leads to a generic h-bridge board. Again I choose it for it's ability to count optical encoder pulses.

    Later
    EvanF
  8. EvanF

    EvanF Member

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    Hi Sirnoname,

    Now my head is spinning.
    The boards I refer to are not only h-bridge drivers but are also controllers to convert serial data into X-Y motion, yes the Velleman can be used for that but how do I convert pulses from an optical encoder into something useful using a Velleman board or a 555 timer chip? We (myself and a friend) have tried to make a DAC for the optical encoder with the idea of possibly tapping onto the ADC input of either the Velleman or Thanos AMC but this idea has not been successful so far. How do you utilise your desktop printer encoder to the velleman?

    Evan
  9. EvanF

    EvanF Member

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    Hi Sirnoname,

    Thanks again, there is a lot of information in this post, I will have to print it out and digest it all.

    I think your servo/soundcard implementation in software is neat. I once recorded R/C PCM and overlaid the soundfile into video with the idea to motion cue servo's. It sounded dirty (I was sceptical that such noise held reliable information) and I kept it to one channel to avoid hearing it in a speaker and it did the trick!

    Here is a link to the 'slider' PC interface of the Gamatronix intergrated PID Servo Motor Controller/Driver board I mentioned earlier (Forgot to mention it is only $99 per axis) The board can serial interface up to 115200 baud, 20khz PWM, encoder input to 254,000 cps, RS232 or 485 network.
    http://www.gamatronix.com/gamoto/software/MotoView.zip
    http://www.gamatronix.com/gamoto/softwa ... ew_src.zip
    http://www.gamatronix.com/gamoto/softwa ... ibrary.zip
    If you think this board has some potential for use with X-Sim I will persue it.

    Evan
  10. EvanF

    EvanF Member

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    Hi Sirnoname,
    That is good news to hear from you! I will pass this information on to Randy of Gamatronix who hopefully should have downloaded X-Sim from the download section by now.
    Yes my optical encoders are quadrature. 100ppr, max rpm 3000rpm, stainless ball bearing mounted. They are way too fast for the picaxe bootstrap to cope with! Randy doesn't think they will be an issue with his board.
    If all goes well with Randy I will order 2 of them next week!
    Evan
  11. tronicgr

    tronicgr

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    I have a design of a atiny2313 based encoder that you can try... it has the same function as this industrial decoder chip: HCTL-2016 Quadrature Decoder/Counter

    Google it to see if you can interface it to your picaxe... My decoder that is Attiny2313 based is cheaper, DIY, and with resolution of 32bit!!!

    Regards, Thanos
  12. EvanF

    EvanF Member

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    Hi Thanos,
    Thanks for your offer. I will google it. We tried to use a picaxe to determine which way the encoder was spinning and send the pulses to an 8bit R2R ladder thus converting the pulse to an 0-5v analogue signal with the intention of using it say with your AMC ADC input. It lost it if spun faster than 1 rev per sec. At 8bit conversion of the DAC I was ready to accept 256 steps which is close enough to 1mm a step when converted to linear movement with my 300mm linear actuators. But after looking at the Gamoto PID controller I am excited about higher resolution control again!
    EvanF
  13. tronicgr

    tronicgr

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    Hi Evan,

    I think you misunderstood me... I was proposing using my Attiny2313 decoder as slave device to your PICAXE, that will do all the hard work of reading the encoder pulses without missing any of them. Then your PICAXE can periodically read back values from the Attiny2313 to know the position. Take a look on the next circuit schematic:

    quad_tiny2313.gif

    As you can see you can read its outputs in parallel that means no delays from serial protocol, and easy enable/disable communication protocol! The only thing now, is if your PICAXE has enough free input ports for this!

    Regards, Thanos
  14. EvanF

    EvanF Member

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    Hi Thanos,

    I probably have, it wouldn't surprise me! If you look at your diagram and imagine the 8 pin outs went to a resistor ladder series that's basically what we (Ben) did (without the 10MHZ crystal) with the slower picaxe. The goal wasn't to build a controller, the intention was to build an optical encoder DAC to feed into your AMC controller.
    Are you proposing I build a controller with picaxe? Or even looking at say Ians Picaxe PID controller, and use your Attiny2313 circuit for the optical encoder?

    Evan
  15. tronicgr

    tronicgr

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    Just to mention that the schematic shows a 10Mhz crystal... but I use 20Mhz crystal that gives 20MIPS (instructions per sec) to the Attiny2313... This gives the power to the ATtiny to track quadrature signals of almost 250.000cps (counts per sec) !!!!

    Hey, now that I mention that... isn't Gamoto-1 controller uses a Attiny13 to decode the optical encoder too? ;D

    Regards, Thanos
  16. EvanF

    EvanF Member

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    Hi Sirnoname,

    Thanks for putting this thread back into perspective. Not sure how the picaxe came into it but I had already dismissed the picaxe processing to just controlling slave peripherals and other misc actuator work around the cockpit and not for the primary goal of axis control. Like you say Picaxe is just too slow for this! (but they still have their place elsewhere)

    The intention of this thread was to confirm whether either of the boards I suggested (the ax3500 and then the gamoto) could be a viable solution for people who wanted to DIY other areas of motion-sim but leave the tricky part of interfacing their motion platform to the computer to someone else. ie: Buy an off the shelf controller board to interface with X-Sim motion software.

    From our discussions earlier I think we agreed it may be worth persuing the gamoto PID controller board.

    @Thanos, not sure if the Gamoto uses the Attiny, but at $99 bucks (per axis) for the board it sure solves a lot of headaches for me - if it works!

    EvanF
  17. tronicgr

    tronicgr

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    Sure it does! I've seen it in the manual!!!! http://www.gamatronix.com/gamoto/docs/gamoto_um.pdf

    Thanos
  18. EvanF

    EvanF Member

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    Yeah it does, and the PIC16F876S0 could be the one PICAXE use for their 28X1 too.
  19. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    Hi Evan,

    Perhaps I missed something. I think I've red, that you want to buy a 99Dollar interface to have a decoder to connect to the AMC, while Thanos is in train to design an external decoder circuit which connects as well to his AMC, and uses exactly the same chip (Atiny)!? ;P

    Regards
    Christin
  20. EvanF

    EvanF Member

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    Hi Ego,

    Well not exactly, the thread got a bit crossed over. I explained what I was trying to achieve by making a DAC to adapt an optical encoder to suit ADC input, and my predicament with the processing of the encoder, that is it, the picaxe just couldn't cope with the speed of the encoder.

    It lead me to question why other controller boards (commercial with optical encoder input) can't interface with the profiler/USO. I researched a few and asked Sirnoname for some advice on whether they could be used. Sirnoname has tentatively said the Gamoto could be worth a go.

    So I will wait on Randy of Gamatronix to hear what he has to say. Randy was interested enough in the application of his board to look into it. As for the original controller board of this post, the AX3500, well Roboteq haven't got back to me about it so I assume they are too busy. (perhaps the subject line could be re-titled!)

    Although Thanos has alluded to an optical encoder solution in the past, I was not aware Thanos was actively in the process of building an optical encoder addon for his AMC, but that still begs the question about self build.

    The intent of this post was to try and find an off the shelf plugnplay board with an optical encoder input, and suitable for motion control, that was still affordable enough to use for those DIYers who are good in other areas of building the motion-sim and prefer to have this part of their project headache free!

    So yeah I think that summarises where this thread is at so far?

    Sorry for any confusion, everything about this hobby is around evolving and refining!