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Problem with FSX and simtools

Discussion in 'New users start here - FAQ' started by Farfred, Sep 27, 2015.

  1. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Yes the Live For Speed plugin is bundled by default with SimTools. You can control it with a mouse and keyboard as it is just a test, so does not need fine control. You can download LFS here: https://www.lfs.net/downloads

    The LFS test should confirm it by I really think your tilt issue is a configuration/calibration problem unrelated to any plugin.
  2. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    @Farfred : your interface setting is wrong ;)

    output bit range = 8 bits (not 10 bits)

    Capturtempe.PNG
    • Useful Useful x 1
  3. Farfred

    Farfred Member

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    oui , c'est la même chose, l'axe droit s'incline vers le bas , tandis que l'axe gauche s'incline vers le haut.

    yes, it's the same thing, the right axis tilts down, while the left axis tilts upward.
  4. Farfred

    Farfred Member

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    Je viens de changer, c'est déjà beaucoup mieux
    I just changed, it's already much better:blush

    je vais vite essayer cela en faisant un petit vol au dessus de ......Marseille
    I'll quickly try this by making a small flight over Marseille .....:thumbs
  5. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    If lever are going to the middle position at startup, you have a correct wiring of pots.
    I bet the problem should be the game: please follow good advice form @noorbeast and try another game.
    you're close to success! :)

    Si tes cames se mettent à l'horizontale, alors ton câblage de potentiomètre est correct.
    Les valeurs erratiques proviennent de valeurs Min/max incorrectes dans le Tuning Center.

    Je n'arrive pas à comprendre : le mouvement des cames est-il conforme avec l'écran virtual axis ?
    Peux-tu essayer un autre jeu... LFS peut se jouer au clavier :) et le plugin est livré avec Simtools
  6. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    tu confondrais pas DOF et Axis ?
    don't you mess between DOF and Axis?

    If you have Roll, it's normal that one motor is up and the other is down...
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Farfred

    Farfred Member

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    Bon, j'ai mis 8 bits au lieu de 10
    lorsque je vais dans output testing -> output type , je choisi Dof output, turn off, Roll, curseur au milieu, rien ne bouge , les cames sont en position médiane( normal) curseur vers la droite, la bielle gauche descent et la droite monte ( inclinaison vers la droite)
    Curseur vers la gauche, bielle gauche descent et bielle droite monte ( inclinaison vers la gauche)
    La je crois que c'est bon.
    Pitch, curseur au milieu , rien ne bouge ,les cames sont en position médiane, ( normal) curseur vers la droite , les deux bielles descentes en même temps, curseur vers la gauche, les deux bielles montes en même temps.
    La aussi je crois que c'est bon.
    Output type, position axis output, axis 1 curseur au milieu, les cames sont en position médiane, je bouge le curseur vers la droite, la bielle gauche descent en position basse ( la gauche ne bouge pas ( normal) curseur vers la gauche, la bielle gauche monte en position haute.
    Axis 2, le curseur au milieu, les cames sont en position médiane, je bouge le curseur vers la droite, la bielle droite monte position haute, curseur vers la gauche, la bielle descent en position basse.
    Je pense que tout est bon dans ce test


    Well, I put 8 bits instead of 10
    output type , je choisi Dof output, turn off, Roll, curseur au milieu, rien ne bouge , les cames sont en position médiane( normal) curseur vers la droite, la bielle gauche descent et la droite">when I go to output testing -> output type I chose Dof output, turn off, Roll, cursor in the middle, nothing moves, the cams are in the middle position (normal) cursor to the right, the descent left and right rod up (tilt to the right)
    Cursor left, descent left and right crank rod mounts (tilt to the left)
    The I think it's good.
    Pitch, cursor in the middle, nothing moves, the cams are in middle position (normal) cursor to the right, both runs rods at the same time slider to the left, the two rods mounted simultaneously.
    The so I think it's good.
    Output type position axis output, axis 1 cursor in the middle, the cams are in the middle position, I move the cursor to the right, the connecting rod descent left in the down position (the left does not move (normal) cursor left, the rod mounts left in the up position.Axis 2, the cursor in the middle, the cams are in the middle position, I move the cursor to the right, the right connecting rod goes high position, cursor to the left, the descent rod in the lower position

    I think everything is good in this test

    Je viens de faire un essai avec FSX, le Pitch répond bien en montée et en desente par contre pour le roll, rien ne se passe, pas d'inclinaison ni à gauche ni à droite
    Gros progrès aussi , au lancement de FSX, les deux cames reste bien en position médiane et ne bouge plus.

    Just did a test with FSX, the pitch meets uphill and against by desente for the roll, nothing happens, no tilt to the left or right.
    Much progress also launched FSX, the two cams stays in the center position and not move.

    Configuration de mes axes actuel, Current configuration of these axes
    [​IMG]

    Dois je ajouter d'autre axes ? Yaw, Surge,Sway, Heave ? si oui avec quel valeur pour ne pas trop dépasser les 100%
    Should I add the other axes? Yaw, Surge, Sway, Heave? if so with what value so as not to exceed 100%

    Quelles valeurs Maxi/Mini dans Tuning center pour les différents DOF
    What values Maxi / Mini Tuning in center for different DOF

    Merci a vous deux Noorbeast et Racingmat

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  8. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Good, some progress.

    You should configure one force at a time, start with 20% in the Axis Assignment: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/guide-to-set-up-simtools-arduino-and-write-profiles.47/

    Test in the game and adjust the Tuning Center values until that force feels good. Then turn it off and do the next force by the same method.

    Use the FSX/P3D guide by @Archie to refine the settings, including filters, as the plugin allows roll and pitch to be replaced with Extra 1 and 2 for a more realistic effect: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/prepar3d-guide-to-realistic-motion-settings.144/

    It takes time to refine a motion profile, @Archie's guide is a good indicator of setting but each simulator is different and values need to be determined which suit it, there is no one size fits all for motion profile settings.
  9. Farfred

    Farfred Member

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    Bonjour Noorbeast, je vais faire comme vous le recommandez.
    Une chose est certaine, c'est que mon montage est correct, axes, potentiometre,
    carte et code arduino, moto monster shield, le dialogue entre simtools, arduino, et le jeu FSX .
    Donc maintenant c'est une question de trouver les bons réglages.
    Pensez vous qu'il serait mieux de transferer ce sujet dans le poste ( My 2Dof for FSX) que j'ai créé dans le chapitre Flight simulator du forum.Excepté ma présentation.
    Des que cela fonctionnera bien je ferai une petite vidéo

    Hello Noorbeast, I will do as you recommend.
    One thing is certain, is that my setup is correct, axes, pots,
    card and Arduino code, moto monster shield, dialogue between simtools, Arduino, and FSX game
    So now it's a matter of finding the right settings.
    Do you think it would be better to transfer this subjet in the post (My 2Dof for FSX) that I created in the chapter Flight simulator of the forum.
    Except my presentation.
    For that it works well I'll do a smal video

    Tx for all
  10. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    If I understand correctly everything is now working and just needs to have the motion profile refined.

    If that is correct then post a video that shows your simulator and the game running at the same time to your main build thread and members can advise from there.
  11. Farfred

    Farfred Member

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    Ok that's fine
  12. Farfred

    Farfred Member

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    les essais avec le jeu ont été un peu laborieux
    Pitch OK, Roll rien ?
    Multiples essais avec chaque fois des modifs dans axes assignements.
    Pour enfin avoir le Roll et le pitch qui travail dans le bon sens j'ai cette configuration


    Testing with the game was a little laborious
    OK Pitch, Roll nothing?
    Multiple tests with each of mods in assignments axes.
    To finally have the roll and pitch, which work in a good way I have this configuration

    [​IMG]
    C'est un peu bizarre d'avoir les deux carrés orange cochés pour avoir le Roll qui marche dans le bon sens.
    J'ai installé un siège provisoire sur la plate forme et j'ai fait un premier essai en vol.
    Bon cela répond bien en tangage montée et descente et en roulis gauche droite mais c'est souvent saccadé par a coup genre mitraillette ( pas très agréable à la longue)
    Je me demande si mes moteurs sont assez puissant et si le centre de gravité est bien positionné car si je me penche un peu vers l'avant ou vers l'arrière les moteurs grognent
    je pense que c'est parce que on force un peu sur la consigne donnée au moteur par les potars.


    It's a little weird to have both orange square box to have the Roll walking in the right direction.
    I installed a temporary seat on the platform and I did a first test flight.
    Well that answers up and down in pitch and roll left right but often by a sudden jerky kind machine gun (not very pleasant in the long run)
    I wonder if my engines are powerful enough and if the center of gravity is well positioned because if I lean a bit forward or backward engines growl
    I think it is because you force a little over the reference given to the engine by the pots.

    Photos du siège, c'est un peu rustique mais pour l'instant c'est bon comme cela.
    Photos of the seat, it is a little rustic but for now it's good like that.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Bon W.E.
    Have a good week-end.




    Attached Files:

  13. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    As I posted earlier it is better to use @Archie's guide and replace pitch and roll with Extra 1 and 2: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/getting-the-most-out-of-p3d-and-your-sim.6889/

    The reason is that if you are doing say a roll, once your sim reaches the inverted point it will snap to the opposite range of its movement in an unrealistic manner. Same with a loop for pitch. You can hide that a bit with filters but Extra 1 and 2 do a better job of how pitch and roll are handled in the first place. Using filters is critical to get the best out of a flight motion profile, so do study @Archie's guide as he has laid out the general settings, though they will need tweaking for your simulator, as design has a significant impact.

    It is very important that the COG on a compact sim is correct, as otherwise it puts significant strain on the motors: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/find-the-center-of-gravity-to-balance-a-motion-simulator.55/

    It is also important to have the PID tuned to suit your simulator.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2015
  14. Farfred

    Farfred Member

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    Bonjour noorbeast,
    Oh ok désolé
    Oh ok sorry
    C'est comme ça ?It's like that ?
    [​IMG]
  15. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Sorry I can't access the image you posted.
  16. Farfred

    Farfred Member

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    Voici mon setting avec Extra 1 et extra2
    Here my setting with Extra 1 and extra2

    [​IMG]

    As you can see, extra2 replace Roll and extra1 replace Pitch in this order.
    It's runing well like this .

    J'ai cherché longtemps pour avoir la bonne combinaison

    I searched long time for the right combination

    Maintenant je dois encore affiner avec Tuning center

    Now I have to refine with Tuning center

    Mais avec votre aide précieuse,je pense que je suis sur la bonne voie

    But with your preciouse help, I think I'm on the right way

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    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    You could try some smoothing with the Extra 1 and 2 Axis allocations.

    Yes do spend time refining Tuning Center values.

    Finally, once you have the Tuning Center values as good as the can get then create plane specific profiles in the Game Manager Profiles Editor button, by copying and renaming the default profile under the Editor tab. Then tweak the characteristics needed for that plane.

    It does take a long time to truly refine a motion profile, but it pays off in the long run.
  18. Farfred

    Farfred Member

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    Oui, j'ai fait une erreur sur le dernier setting que je vous ai envoyé, normalement c'est bien dans extra 1 et 2 que je doit metre des effets smoothing et non dans heave et surge....j'ai corrigé

    Yes, I made a mistake on the last setting that I sent you, usually it is in extra 1 and 2 I must put smoothing effects and not heave and surge .... I corrected.

    Maintenant,mon principal souci est de trouver la valeur dans tuning center qui va eliminer les petites secousse qui se produisent lors des petits mouvements du simu,
    aussi bien en Roll qu'en tangage.Mais je ne sais pas , c'est peut-etre normal

    Now my main concern is to find the value in tuning center that will eliminate the small tremor occurring during small movements of the simulation, in Roll or in Pitch, but I do not know, it might be normal
  19. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Finding the best value in the Tuning Center comes down to experimentation.

    First do a base setting for Tuning Center values: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/set-base-tuning-motion-values-in-the-tuning-center.122/

    After that you can manually edit the Tuning Center values.

    The smaller the number used the more reactive the simulator response, but at the cost of some axis travel.

    The larger the number the greater amount of axis used but the sim is somewhat less responsive.

    In a plane movement tends to slightly follow control inputs and an aircraft sort of settles into a new attitude. It does depend a bit on the aircraft being used, as a Tiger Moth is very different and a lot more imprecise than a Raptor fighter jet.

    From your description I suspect you should try higher number in the Tuning Center and perhaps alter the smoothing a little more in the profile.