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Help choosing the right kind of 2dof for me.

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by mariano68, Apr 26, 2015.

  1. mariano68

    mariano68 Active Member

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    Hey guys! Great forum!
    I'd been reading the forum a lot for some months at the point that you start to recognize some personalities behind the keyboards :)
    Well, my original idea was to learn enough to build a basic 2dof seat mover, basically the desk mover from bsft as the perfect goal, but then I got in love with the joyriders as I'm more a general player, 50/50 racing and space sims, but as I don't have enough space or, better said, wife will kill me if I put a joyrider where my computer is located, so I'd started looking for something in between like a rocknrider :p
    I have access to machines and metal tools, late if needed and a metal bender at a reduced rate, on the other side, my electrical/electronic knowledge is equal to zero.
    So, after reading eaorobbie's talking about the benefits of the JRKs, I thought that's the board I need, the problem is that I can get only one now, and I will have to wait for a month or more to get another, so looks like the arduino+MM will be the way to go (if I find someone to do the electrical part for me locally)

    I already got a pair of truck wiper motors that came with the holding mechanism as a great plus, and a pair of servers PSUs I modded for 12v 32amp each.
    motores1 (Medium).jpg
    Also this wiper motors are a lot faster going counterclockwise, 130rpm vs 85rpm clockwise.

    So I was looking for a way to make a rocknrider clone or just start with a desk racer to get some empirical knowledge.
    BTW, I want to use the current upper part of my chair with one or two buttkickers LFE that I have. Silla con bk5(Small).jpg

    Something I'm thinking about is to use a modified engine lifter, I can get one cheap that can hold about 1000 pounds.
    descarga.jpg
    What do you guys think?
    Thanks anyway!

    PD: Excuse my English please :p
  2. bsft

    bsft

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    do you have a sketch of how you plan to use the old engine hoist?
  3. mariano68

    mariano68 Active Member

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    Not yet, I'd got the idea yesterday :), but let me see...
    2nd arm.jpg
    Something like that.
  4. mariano68

    mariano68 Active Member

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    I can't upload in an edited post, so:
    sketch.jpg

    BTW, I don't plan to use a monitor, I have a rift DK2
  5. bsft

    bsft

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    ok, something like that Id suggest DIY actuators with a long travel
  6. dberg1

    dberg1 Member

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    I think that is an awesome idea! It would cut out a lot of fabricating time, if possible put a bearing for the rotating mass. I have built some engines in my day, and when you get weight on it, it will turn hard and have premature ware. Possibly a wheel hub from a car would work. And by the way that's a engine stand not a hoist(cherry picker), sorry to be a stickler.
    • Like Like x 1
  7. dberg1

    dberg1 Member

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    or a steering knuckle with a hub, for pitch and roll. Sorry just thinking out loud.
  8. mariano68

    mariano68 Active Member

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    That would be great! but I was thinking about something easier to do for me, just like a chaindrive like this:


    Yeah! that's what I thought!
    Modding with a pillow block or spherical flange bearing (is that the name in English?)
    spherical_flange_bearing.jpg
    I will look for that wheel hub.

    Also, I think I will get the JRK now, put my efforts in the mechanical part, and wait for the other JRK to arrive.
    • Like Like x 3
  9. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    If you want a reasonably easy build that does not take up too much space then your first idea was the best one (bsft like design):) . I'm not a fan of chain drives used in that way (in the video), as they flex and bounce the rig under load and changes in direction Ie. Sh%## stomach churning motion - especially with the Rift.
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  10. bsft

    bsft

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    Yes thats the name, I have 4 here from my old joyrider I had in the beginning. Mind you m they are only 12mm shaft size.
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  11. mariano68

    mariano68 Active Member

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    Then I will have to look for something bigger than that. Or just follow SeatTime advice, if my stubbornness allow me :p
  12. mariano68

    mariano68 Active Member

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    About the difference of shaft direction speed on my wipers, I think I'd read this in this forum, I copied the quote but not the name of the user:
    "It is normal that wiper motors turn faster in one direction than to the other. You should turn arround one motor, so that speeds are equal.
    Preferrably, the faster/stronger direction should point to forward/braking, while the slower direction should go backwards/accelleration
    ."
    This is fine for a 2dof, but I think it is not a fix for a rocknride kind of unit, so, is there any solution for a rocknride?
  13. insanegr

    insanegr !N$@n€

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    the fix for what you are looking for
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  14. mariano68

    mariano68 Active Member

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    Thanks! I saw that video long time ago, but going that way I will slow down the fastest side a lot, as the slow side doesn't get faster doing that trick in my wipers. Also found this, but I don't understand what is he talking about as I don't know what a "provision" is :p :

    There is another way but involves pulling the motor case apart. Inside you will find the motor brushes, usually spaced 180 degrees apart for a single speed motor. In my case a multi speed had them spaced one at 3 o'clock and the other at 6 o'clock. This gives you different speeds based on the phase shift induced by a change in polarity applied to the connected motor wires.

    In simple terms if your motor has provision to move one of the brushes as mine did it will give you the maximum speed you can in both directions.

    A word of warning though. That little black nipple on the end of the motor case is a self aligning bushing that can be hard to line up when reassembling, the magnetic field will try and pull the rotor off centre as you try and replace it. It can be done but requires a bit of patience.
  15. Alexey

    Alexey Well-Known Member

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    The reason a wiper motor goes faster one way than the other is because the worm gear on the wiper is designed to operate with the least resistance in one direction. The angle of the thread makes it easy to turn in one direction but has a higher friction in the other direction. You can see this yourself by taking the gearbox apart and you will see the worm gear tapers to a matching taper on the circular gear. If the circular gear had a straight cut gear it would be equal but it actually is cut on an angle, thus preferring motion in only one direction. Also you can see by connecting a current clamp on the motor. In the faster direction the motor will draw less current than in the slower direction. This is because the worm gear has resistance friction turning in the other direction. By twisting the body of the motor you are changing the magnets positions and de tuning it to run slower as you said.

    If the wiper is powerful enough to handle the de tune then it is something to think about doing. Or a better solution is to save your money and buy reversible motors.

    The other thing is, how do the motors behave under load? They may spin at different speeds without load but you may find that under load the difference may not be as noticeable once you are actually using it. That's just wishful thinking on my end but I've seen many wiper motor seat movers and I haven't read any complaints about this problem.

    Looks like a bit of a unique project!
    • Informative Informative x 2
  16. mariano68

    mariano68 Active Member

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    Thanks Alexey!
    Yes, I tried checking amps with a clamp, and yes, the faster way was 1.5amp and the slower 2.5amp, also tried twisting the body with no luck, but I hope they get equal or near under load, if i make a seat mover it wont be a problem, we will see.
    In the meantime, I'm thinking the final design with a friend that has a lot more mechanical knowledge than me.
    And yes, I don't like to just copycat projects, I always like to do things with a little twist ;)
  17. mariano68

    mariano68 Active Member

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    What do you think guys about this one? looks like to be a winner for what i want! compact enough and yet a joyrider "ish"
    6a983dd246a215415e4bf9d3cf625068_original.jpg
    I ordered the JRKs, will be here in a month...or two.
  18. mariano68

    mariano68 Active Member

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    Well, looks like the idea of the modified engine lifter, wasn't new at all, I found @OscarH already did it 6 years ago :p but I can't find if it worked fine or not :(
    15 - New Release of Seat  - Bank axis.jpg
    Also, kind of funny to see the @OscarH also did his first 2dof with some principles of the cloud flyer phoenix (tornadoblu5 like sim).
    8 - Full assembly, not seat.jpg
  19. OscarH

    OscarH Member

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    Hi Guys,
    I recently sold the Tornadoblue like simulator (250€ !) as it had not been used for a while (at least 2 years).
    When I started with rev B, i.e. the engine lifter, I decided to buy a CNC machine to do bits and pieces. The CNC machine brought so many new ideas to my mind, I'm now using more the CNC than the simulator...
    I made some modification to the engine lifter. I need to remove dust before taking some pictures. The principle worked well, even if there are still things to do to have it completed. I replaced wipers motor by 2 mechanical cylinder bought at surplus.
    I'll try to make picture this week, latest this week-end for you to see.
    Cheers.
    OscarH
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  20. mariano68

    mariano68 Active Member

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    Thanks very much @OscarH to take the time to reply here and also give some feedback on the rev. B, that's very kind of you!
    I will be looking forward for your pics and anything you can tell about it.