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Vibration or just motion?

Discussion in 'Electronic and hardware generally' started by djbordie, Apr 20, 2015.

  1. djbordie

    djbordie speed!

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    Hello everyone, nice community you have here.

    I see the sim software is predominately for motion systems.
    Very cool, but expensive for us new people.

    I realize that the software also handles vibration based stuff like buttkicker.
    Maybe to a lesser extent?

    How in depth can you get for the vibration stuff? I have not been able to test yet, as i need coins before I can download plug ins.

    Comparing what I read to sim commander, that software seems to offer each element.
    ie. Throttle data, rpm, road bumps, crashes, etc.

    I hope the same is true for sim tools??

    Thank you
  2. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    Bassshaker is not yet supported by SimTools. The developing is in the pipeline.
  3. bsft

    bsft

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    @djbordie , motion or basshakers can be costly depending on how you look at it.
    I live in Australia for example, so a single bass shaker/buttkicker costs me some like $250 plus an amplifier. I dont know how effective one shaker would be, so I guess Id need 2 or more ($500-$750 plus cost of amp). Which would bring me up near the cost of motion.
    A set up using JRKS and larger DC worm gear motors, using a seat mover design comes in cost wise about $650-$750, and thats a balanced platform 2DOF.
    So for me, either would cost the same.
    I went motion to get the "feel" of action being jolted around.
    Bass shakers would give me more tactile vibrations and some small jolts through the frame.
    Cost wise will depend on you and your choice.
    Id suggest motion first up though
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    @bsft wow, this is rather expensive - here in Europe a bass shaker is ~50$, an 400w amplifier 50$.
    I use 4 bassshakers (chassis) and one buttkicker (seat) and if they are off I miss them really. The bassshakers are that extra something or how we German speaking people are saying the salt in the soup ;)
  5. DanielDk

    DanielDk Member

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    Wouldn't it be possible for the actuators to do the vibrations. I feel like a well tuned setup could do 20hz... :idunno:
  6. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

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    @Pit - We get the "Australia Tax" down under. It's not official it's just a "Gee, Australia is so large and so remote lets add $100-$200 to the price just for sending it there"
    Even when the US$ was lower than the AUD$, nothing changes (Except China goods get cheaper :) )

    @djbordie - I think you would be pleasantly surprised how cheap a Motion Sim can be to build. Don't let the price of commercial units fool you / put you off.
  7. bsft

    bsft

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    @Archie , yeah , its unbelievable, at one stage even Steam was charging 2-3 times as much for the same digital download of a game purely because we are in this sunburnt country , @Pit , thats the sort of things we have to cop.
    Heck even @nclabs was telling me he bought a 2nd hand 2014 model Z4 for something like $25k in Italy. In Australia, the same car is $85-$110k.
    @djbordie , heres a video of my phone taped to the side of my desk racer seat showing vibration to some extent. And thats with motors set at 20khz PWM frequency in JRK. So to some extent, yes you can get vibration.

    There is DIY bas shaker build threads on here somewhere.
  8. cthiggin

    cthiggin Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    I've had the Butt-Kicker Gamer for about 5 weeks now.............attached to my RS1 Seat/Platform and it did ok, but when I would turn it up to feel good vibration, the darn thing would overheat and shutdown
    for about 10 minutes. I talked with tech support at ButtKicker and the problem. They asked to send pics since the RS1 is a heavy duty and big frame, which I did.
    The called me and said they know exactly what the problem was..............."that I was trying to have the BK Gamer vibrate the whole RS1 AND my motion platform that it is attached too.

    Well, I spent 28 US dollars and ordered the 1.25" diameter x 7/8" thick rubber isolators and now the darn thing will shake your nuts off if you want it too. The isolators made the difference in the world
    for my set-up. The BK intensity/or/volume setting is about mid point and never overheats...........
    For a real thrill - try your Vibe System using Assetto Corsa, the new Corvette or the mod F1-2015...........and those two with vibe are just outstanding.

    Summary..................learn something new all the time / and / I would not race without the BK Gamer.

    Tom
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. eightbit

    eightbit Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Nice Intel :) so the bk is definitely worth a shot then, because I'm still in two minds because . Would love to capture the rpm telemetry and build a dc motor tactile engine offset weight as like the console joypad but I may just go with the bk if I keep reading the good thangs :)
  10. shannonb1

    shannonb1 Well-Known Member

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    I go with both, it adds a new sensation.
  11. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Can be dependent on the capabilities of the sim. On my new sim (6DOF - actuator driven) I can replicate any vibration data that is available on the axis's, but then depending on how rough the track is, it then starts to destroy my kidneys/spine :), so have been toning it down. I do own a butt-kicker ($$ in Oz) and have used it in the past on both game sound output and 'Sim Vibe' (just have not go around to fitting it on my current sim). Sim Vibe wins because it actually extracts a more convincing and configurable motor, gearbox and other wheel vibration data then just using the muddled combination + others sounds from the sound card (although better than nothing). V2 of Simtools is meant to be release with a bass shaker output, but there is little information yet of its capabilities. Also agree that most things are expensive in OZ, including even power to drive the sim :mad:.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    I use motion to get feedback from the axis forces and vibration to get feedback from rpm's.
  13. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    Try the 2002 Ferrari....you'll be pleasantly surprised.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Michail

    Michail Member Gold Contributor

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    Ok guys, yesterday, I have the third ride on my 2dof + traction loss sim. I just patched the game pcars2 without patching in sinhub. So I dint get vibrations from the bass shaker and I am know asking if I need it any more?

    I can not imagin, for what, (except engine) I would to use. So I want you to ask you, for what do you use the bass shakers? Or how do you would use when you have 1 an the front and one under seat at the back?

    I dont want to make a extra thread, this the reason, I reply in the old thread here.
  15. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I use bass shakers for things like RPM, which motion itself can't do, so consider motion and transducers to be complimentary.
  16. Michail

    Michail Member Gold Contributor

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    Yeah this is what I thought, it have to be complementary since road vibration I get know over motion or not?.. but only RPMs is a bit few. So this is what I can add for the profil
  17. itsumairu

    itsumairu Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I use bass shaker with simhub too. each one on the front and the back of my rig.
    and for me, motion is not enough.
    my settings is for RPM, deceleration, road vibration and impact.
    yes its plenty, and its gonna overlapping, but I love how it works.
  18. Michail

    Michail Member Gold Contributor

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    I wonder what does the shakers when decelerating? I have change the simhub profile. I deactivate bums like curbs but leave road texture, rpm, gear shift, engine and abs.. it's know really good.
  19. itsumairu

    itsumairu Active Member

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    its when you hit the brake.
    I don't see any abs on some games. so I use it to get a feedback on braking. lol