K8055 - Dual Wiper Motor Control with Variable Speed

How well would the k8055 be for creating a dash board cluster? It says it has 8 outputs, but would that mean it can drive 8 servos? Guess Im saying that woudl be cool to tinker, but given the pololu ever comes in stock, you could transfer the k8055 to the dash setup and not be wasting and money?

Hi there - sorry havent been answering posts everyone... will catch up, but have been out of the country with work!

I'm sure I have seen the K8055 used for dashboard controls somewhere... may be JimsPage...

Let me look that up for you!

Tim

yeh, tried to search, the search failed, found some other data in german though.

well after alot of head scraching the k8055 paid off.
Now have two wiper motors running of a pololu dual motor carrier that i had laying around from a fail sim set using the pwm signal from a serial rc card.
With the help from a fine chap in the velleman site the k8055 can control the wipers speed and direction to a speed that will work in a seat based system but i will be transfering this to my joyrider system for flight. that bigtalltim think i owe ya beer and big thanks for the idea.
Under $200aus dollars for all electrics for a flight sim is priceless.
The joy of motion in flight also priceless, thanks again.

Please post the circuit and the setup of x-sim.
a photo would be great to.

how do you connect two K8055 to computer?

Hi Kubing

Check out post 1 on page 11 of this thread ;D

Later today i will get my index finished, and edit the first post in the thread to give locations for specific points like this.

In brief, you set the board address using the jumpers in the middle (explanation in the post) and the PC will recognise the 2 boards as different and present you with more options (screen prints also in post).

Tim

wonder how do you handle PID term and synchronize them in real time. can you show me any video or link how this respond to rfactor or other sim if any. because PID implementation in ucontroller quite tough in practically speaking. :yes:

Hi Kubing

Page 11 again, this time post 5 - follow the link... the article in Wikipedia linked to there talks you through how to do this :thbup:

Tim

Hi - I have finally got round to listing the contents of this thread so far!

I have only listed the first post in discussions on subjects that may have taken place over many exchanges, so it is well worth reading on past the reference point if you are looking something up - there have been a number of very useful discussions on design considerations.

Here is the list to date - I will copy this into the first post also, and keep the first page contents list up to date with any new developments.

Hope it helps! :

Tim

Page1/Post1: CIRCUIT 12V Relay circuit design
Page1/Post1: VIDEO-DEMO Explanation on relay setup
Page1/Post1: VIDEO-DEMO Demo of multiple wiper motors
Page1/Post1: PROFILE Basic build of relay setup (No position feedback)
Page1/Post8: CIRCUIT Frakks MOSFET version of Relay Circuit
Page2/Post8: CIRCUIT Track layout for 12V Dual Relay circuit
Page2/Post8: EXPLANATION Description of Relay circuit build
Page2/Post9: VIDEO-DEMO How to set up K8055 for Position Feedback
Page2/Post9: CIRCUIT Wiring diagram for connection of Pots to K8055
Page3/Post1: VIDEO-DEMO Frame - Initial Proof of Concept Test
Page3/Post5: CIRCUIT How to connect K8055 to Pololu High Power Motor Driver 24V20
Page6/Post2: VIDEO First test of Sarrus Linkage Actuator
Page6/Post2: VIDEO-DEMO Comparison of RolandVanRoys solution and my own including design concepts
Page7/Post2: VIDEO Second test of Sarrus linkage demonstrating good positioning response
Page7/Post9: EXPLANATION How to use Test Tablet
Page11/Post1: EXPLANATION How to connect multiple K8055s to a single PC
Page11/Post5: EXPLANATION PID Control concepts and link to further reading (wikipedia)
Page12/Post9: CIRCUIT 24V version of Relay circuit (see also Page13/Post3)
Page14/Post4: CIRCUIT ADBGGs circuit layout for K8055 and Sabretooth 2x10A
Page14/Post9: EXPLANATION HOW THE K8055 and RELAY SOLUTION WORKS!
Page14/Post9: CIRCUIT Track layout for 24V dual relay circuit
Page15/Post7: VIDEO Further tests of Sarrus linkage type actuator
Page17/Post1: EXPLANATION Screw thread actuator concept - fail
Page17/Post5: EXPLANATION First steps towards Chain Drive setup
Page17/Post6: VIDEO Chain Driven Linear Actuator - Proof of concept test
Page17/Post9: VIDEO-DEMO How to wire a switch to change motor direction
Page17/Post9: VIDEO Extreme Stress test - Demonstration of power available through gear reduction
Page18/Post5: EXPLANATION Tronics solution - How to wire Automatic Direction Recovery Diodes
Page18/Post7: VIDEO-DEMO How Auto Direction Recovery Diodes work
Page18/Post10: VIDEO Switches at Extremes of position with Direction Recovery Diodes

Woohoo!! Love your work, you legend you!

I just had a thought... it's quite a good thought! 8)

Maybe we can get a single K8055 to drive 3 motors after all!

I will explain my thinking:

Using the relay solution we are unable to achieve the control of more than 2 motors.
This is because each motor requires a PWM output, and there is only 2.
Likewise, each axis requires a pot for feedback and there is only two analogue inputs.

This leaves 6 digital outputs unused... and it is these that I have been thinking about.

The original profiles for the K8055 featured pulsing routines - each H-bridge requiring 4 outputs.
Before starting with the relay circuit, I tested the circuit below, and it did work - it can even be tweaked to use PWM, but it uses both channels on one motor... this is one of the main reasons I invested so much time in the relay setup, as it allows PWM control of two motors from one K8055!

I am still considering a way in which the extra motor could be usefully used without feedback controls, but technically, the following setup should work:

Wiper motor 1, PWM1, D/O 1, Analogue in 1
Wiper motor 2, PWM2, D/O 2, Analogue in 2
Wiper motor 3, D/O 3,4,5,6 - H-Bridge setup with pulsing routine

I'm gonna throw this one open to everyone out there: Any ideas about how the extra motor could be used?

I was thinking either as a kicker to simulate traction loss on the back of a 2dof frame setup (though that would really need feedback)
OR (and this is my current preference)
not to use a wiper motor at all, but instead a powerful 12V motor with an offset weight to create maximum quantities of vibration through the frame to improve the off road experience in GRID and so on!

The circuit to use the extra digital outputs is as follows:

Just using a fast motor for vibration, fans etc, you wouldn't need such a complicated H-Bridge - in fact, a single pull down resistor and transistor would do the job, and allow the connection of up to another 6 similar motors!!...
BUT if somehow multi directional control could be useful, the H-bridge makes it possible... and still leaves you two outputs for vibration motors! :thbup:

Tim

Any new developments on the prototype actuator?

I love coming back to this thread.

You can get a dual integrated package like the L298 for $5. Multiwatt15 is DIY friendly too!

http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/1773.pdf

interesting stuff indeed!! :clap:

So... if I read this correctly we could use the spare 6 digital outputs from the K8055 to drive another 2 low current bi-directional motors (using 3 outputs each) in addition to the 2 high power ones that the relays handle? - keep me right here... that seems almost too good to be true!!



Cheers once again Frakk - I will order some of these and have a play! :

Tim

That is correct, as long as the digital output can generate PWM for speed control.

Hi Frakk

Now I'm really confused...
The diagram and writeup make reference to High and Low - I had taken that to mean on or off... is that interpretation wrong?

The available outputs definitely do not support PWM - the k8055 only has 2 outputs that do that and the relays will use them up...

Based on my assumption that High means on and Low means off, my understanding from the writeup and in the diagram was that if we have 3 outputs 1,2 and 3, they would be used as follows:

1 controls the motor on or off.
2 and 3 govern the direction or the stop

If 1 is on:
2 on and 3 off means forwards
2 off and 3 on means backwards
2 on and 3 on OR 2 off and 3 off means fast stop

If 1 is off, any combination of 2 and 3 means free running stop

The writeup seems to suggest that if we rig up the digital outputs with 1k resistors as with the relay solution, that the straight digital on or off will do the job... (figure 6 with application writeup on 7/13)

Am I on completely the wrong track here?

Tim

You seem to know what you're talking about.

If you only want ON/OFF control of the motor, you don't need PWM. In that case you can hard wire it to enable, then control Direction/Brake with 2 and 3. 6 outputs can control 3 bridges.

Now I'm trying to think of an application for this.

Hi Rebo - glad you like the thread!! :thbup:

The actuator has gone through its last round of testing, and will... hopefully... be made for real... x2...
...and attached to a frame this weekend! I have a lot of work stuff to do, and a tiled floor to put down, but who needs sleep anyway?

The last stage of development has been to refine the feedback mechanism.

I have tried linear pots linked to the chain, which gave me a good response, but a limited range... quite jittery too.
I have also tried pots linked via different sized gears to the chain - nothing satisfactory so far that way either.

The most likely fix for now is a rotary 10K pot with 270 degrees of movement attached to the axle of the middle one of the 3 gear sets... its a very standard solution, but it works very well - and it's cheap, so it is in keeping with the rest of the project!

This will give a full sweep for a range of travel of about 150mm - I had always aimed for approximately the same range as the SCN5 but with more power and considerably less cost!...
Besides this, with my frame design as things stand at the moment (pivoting around a universal joint), any more than that range of movement would just be uncomfortable - I'm all about extreme, but 45 degrees from the horizontal one way or the other is just too much!

If I eventually try a sim pit style build - basically this will happen when I can get the 2nd K8055 concept working - I will need to revisit the feedback mechanism... probably to use a multiturn pot on the axle of the driving gear attached to the wiper motor itself.

Watch this space!!

Tim

lol - thats you and me both!

Anyone out there got any ideas how to use 3 bi-directionally controlled motors up to about 46v and 4 amps with no position feedback in addition to two fully controllable bi-directional variable speed wiper motors with full positional feedback that drive the frame?

Tim