Upgrade from 12V to 24V Wipermotor?

Hi,
i am thinking about to upgrade my Wipermotorsimulator from 12V Wipermotor to 24V Wipermotor and of course the Powersupply from12V to 24V too. It is no problem and don`t cost much for me to get the needed parts, but what for improvements do i get against the 12V Setup ?. Do you think the upgrade would be worth the work?. What are the advantages from a 24V Solution against a 12V?. Do you think the 24V Wipermotors are stronger?.

I'm not an expert, but IMO, there are very good 12V motors which can drive pretty heavy loads.
I think the main thing when it comes to wiper motors (or any other gear head motor) is their gear mechanism.
So, to answer your question, using higher voltage should get you less power consumption, and I'm certain that you will have bigger torque, but I don't think that bigger torque is needed unless you plan to make some huge racing platform

24V stronger than 12V :yes:

This is not true. I have 24V motors in my Logitech MOMO wheel, but they are definitely not stronger than 12V wipers.

It really depends on the motor. The over all power = V * I * Efficiency.

24V motors draw less current for the same amount of power. This is the only difference.

Does it mean 24v would be more gently on the h-bridge?

Not all H-Bridges are equal, but generally speaking, yes.

are you sure they used same type of motor?

That is exactly my point... a 24V motor is not necessarily stronger than a 12V motor...

You said 24V is stronger than 12V. If we are talking about ONLY Voltages then 24V is obviously stronger than 12V, but there are a lot more parameters that affect the power of a motor.

Hi, from Bosch motors the CEP model is more stronger than CHP (wiper motors).
the CEP model (not wiper motor) but seens the same wiper motor from cars, used on hospital bed automation... check it out: http://www.kalatec.com.br/motores-dc-bo ... modelo-cep

however there are two versions 12v and 24v, that can do the job
wow.. i'm not a native english speaker.. =)

The simple equation P(ower) = V(oltage) x I (current) tells it all, folks- look:

If a motor has a power output of, let´s say, 120 Watts (and 100% efficiency which no device ever has), this could be realized with a 12V- motor which, according to the formula above, has to draw 10 amps then. It could also be done with a 24V- motor which only needs 5 amps to output the same 120W! So the 24V-motor is the better choice because it draws less amperage. And as long as we stay below 48V, dc-voltage is rather easy to handle because we don`t need very sophisticated isolation, safety precautons and stuff like that apart from a good fusing.....

So IMHO it does make absolutly no sense to stay with 12V designs because they simply have to handle too much current and the more current you`ll have to deal with the more expensive (and dangerous!) it`ll get. Starting with cables, connectors, fuses, electronic components and so on. 24V= or even 36V= is much easier to handle and normally all electronic components can handle that voltage easily.
Always remember: Current is what heats up components, not voltage! Current is what makes you use thick and expensive cables, not voltage! Current is what generates high losses & problems everytime you want to regulate it, not voltage!

Surely there are more factors to be considered when selecting adequate motors for your project but generally people should be more afraid of working with a 12v-system than with a 24V-system. 12V has only been chosen by so many people because everybody nows it from his own car- stupid decision!

Besides all this I´d rather go for 24V wiper motors because they`re made to move huge wipers on trucks and thusfor normally have to be way more powerfull than their smaller 12v counterparts, to me that`s a no-brainer.....

Wolfgang

PS. Look at the power increase on battery-powered tools during the last decade- nowadays it`s not difficult to find devices that work with 24v-batteries rather than 7.2V on which they started back in the old days..... why do you think all manufacturers did only increase voltage and NOT amperage?

It would depend on what existing controllers you have and if they are 24v compatible or would you need to upgrade.
Perhaps try some high torque 12 volt winch motors like Aldoz and Earobbie have used. The are a 800kg (?) winch motor that drive a 3 dof platform up and down , no issues.
12 volt wipers are used for simplicity and cost. Put some fans on the motors if they get hot.

ribfreak has some valid points on his post. On cables(or other devices which current passes) the power loss can be calculated with Ploss=I^2R (or Vdrop^2/R, where Vdrop=IR) so more current, more power loss and on the other hand less current, less power loss, but then the voltage needs to be bumped up to achieve the same (or more) power levels e.g P=IxV

It is true that with smaller currents it gets easier to pass it through mosfets, but mosfets tend to be low voltage devices and their price gets higher with higher voltages and if you have 24 volt system you would need much higher (twice at least) voltage handling capabilities or they will break cause of inductive kickback that bumps up the voltage on mosfets drain (presume N-channel implementation)

With higher voltages I would use IGBT's instead of mosfets, they are just as easy to drive as mosfets but can tolerate higher voltages.

24 V will only give less current if you reduce the load. With the same load, 24 will draw more than twice the current of 12 V. Reducing the laod can be done with a gearbox, for example. But a motor that can easilly handle 10 A at 12 V can probably handle 10 A at 24 V as well, as long as it never overspeed and there are no built in electronics that fail. An extra 2:1 gear ratio in addition to doubled voltage gives the same speed as before, but twice the available torque.