National Chatterboxes

Lately, some members made me aware of websites/forums, where X-Sim forum data and issues have been posted.
Albeit this is legal of course, as the content on our site is absolutely free, it's a pity on the other hand though, to see projects built up with X-Sim posted somewhere else without our knowledge. To be honest, I rather would like to see them posted here on our site, so we all can learn from them as well.

But unfortunatly there are a lot of people out there, who are not able to speak english, and therefor rather present their projects in other forums, where their native language is spoken.

So let's discuss what we can do about it.

Though it would be good for non english speakers, to have all the X-Sim content in their native language on x-simulator.de, it would create alot of redundancy and chaos. Besides, there are not enough members with good experience to replicate all the XSim content in different languages. On top of that, the chance to get help in the forum is definatly higher, if the issue is presented in english, as there are more people who understand.
To be considered should be as well, that we would have to find reliable and X-Sim experienced moderators for these chatterboxes, as we have a zero tolerance policy for insulting/discriminating language.

We could create a new international section for example. This section would accomodate several national chatterboxes for different languages. Those chatterboxes would not be exactly copies of the x-simulator.de forum, but just a harbor for those of us, who arent able to understand english at all.
These chatterboxes would not have subforums, to keep a better overview.

Perhaps that way we could animate people to rather present their projects here, instead of elsewhere in the web?

So what do you guys think?

Regards

hi egoexpress, as I could understand you, you want to create a new section in X-Sim forum for members that dont fully understand english or german? Am I right?

I am a member from XtremeRacers Forum, you know the F1 like display 8)
We open a thread there to gide spanish spoken people get his simulator working.
You can see it here http://www.xtremeracers.info/forums/vie ... =45&t=7097

Only a few members has theirs simulator working, so I´ll encourage them to show theirs work here in X-Sim forum.

regards,
Willy

That is a good example. It would be great if we could host such X-Sim related projects/threads in the future on our servers as well.

:thbup:

Regards

If I say my opinion, I realize that parts of the forum dedicated to a mother tongue is not bad, but perhaps create a dispersion of information as rightly says Rene.
Maybe you could start creating basic tutorials translated into more languages as possible or at least most used so that anyone who enters this world may have already understood the basic information.
You could start by translating the help of X-SIM, write tutorials on basic control devices used as more of the AVR Thanos, or SCN5.
It could be when you open a new debate on the construction of your mortgage to start writing a sheet of material and 'e used,
many times it is not difficult to understand what is said in the post but maybe it's impossible to understand what kind of engines were used or where to find the ball bearing, the ball joint, etc. ..
So many of us who do not speak English may already have a better idea on how to start.
For example, I do not speak English very well (as you noted) I use Google to translate the various posts and write in English.
However I support, any innovation that can lead to growth of the site and always a good thing.

Regards!! :hi:

I will post my oppinion although I'm a new active user, I follow the x-sim forum from the beginning when almost all the post was in german (spanish is my native language) and was a lot more hard in terms of the software developed and the few simulator availables (mos RNR i remember)

The change to a english speaking forum was a good one for an international comunity.

I think that you can take the experience of a similar forum named cnczone , is a big forum with an HUGE DIY comunity. No so long ago they implemented some sub forums in various languages but there is not so many post in these forums. As an example a local sub forum in an electronic forum has more than 3000 post about cnc but the full spanish comunity in cnc zone has only about 6000 post in total.
If you think in local languages you must look to local necessities and availabilities (hardware, electronics availability is so different in each country) and not only in the spoken language becouse most of the local post are about where to find X or how to make Y with the local parts.

May be a good start in terms of people flow is encourage existing members to post local samples of x-sim integration (per country) in these new Chatterboxes and post a link to the local comunities to gain more detail.

Anyway I'm sure that any form of localization is better than none. :clap: and I welcome the initiative

Greetings

It's a good idea to create some section for people in there native language. And i think, it will be good to translate the menu of X-Sim in first and after the documentation.... in other language french, spanish, and russian. With this it will decrease the number of questions of the different people.

I can understand the desire to have information available in one's native language. It is very difficult for me when I have to translate German posts.

However, I'm not sure that it is a good idea to break things up just yet. As it is, we only have a few users that contribute consistently.

If we are going to seperate out knowledge by language, then we should do it right, so the following questions come to mind:

-Will these national chatterboxes be moderated or will they be a free for all?

-Who would moderate them?

-Who is going to produce this native language documentation? (it's ALOT of work!)

-Who is going to provide free website translation services?

-Is RaceRay willing to install and maintain new website language packs?

-Do we know who the non-english / german X-Sim experts are, or are we hoping they will appear if we give them a place of their own?

Yes, please. the truth is that I personally find it very limited to explain when I have questions and would be great to have a subforum in my native language.

Regards

I think it is a good idea to support more languages and more users around the world, but I don't know what would be the best method to do this.

If we isolate different languages to different sections, each language will have limited support for it's users because the french community for example won't contribute in the spanish section.

Maybe some sort of a translation engine for the forum could solve the language barrier, along with international FAQ/help sections?

I also like the idea of creating tutorials and basic introductory documents in different languages. Once someone has the basic understanding of what we are doing, it will be much easier to build on it and move forward.

What I dont like about national subforums, is that some, or maybe even a lot, people may refuse out of laziness to write or show up in the main english forum once there are subforums in their native language.
This is actually the reason why I dont want national subforums with redundant content.

Imo, the national chatterboxes should be a really small haven only, without subforums, for those who arent able to speak english at all, to prevent people from presenting their projects on other sites, rather than here.
Willnovy gave an example(link), but there are more on other websites as well.

On the other hand, this fact should be a good motivation for people to rather post issues in english.

@Bernard
Of course there would have to be moderators for those chatterboxes.

regards

+1

I suspect that even if it is limited to one forum per language that people will still show their projects there, ask all of their questions there and post all of their knowledge gained there, etc..

I say this largely because that's what I would do. If the X-Sim forums were all German, with one English forum, I would do all of my posting in the English forum, not out of laziness, but because that is where I would be most comfortable and where I would expect to get an answer that I could fully comprehend.

IMHO, it would likely become one large unorganized forum with a lower standard of moderation than the rest of the site since it is not possible for the current moderators to translate, review and fully understand the posts. I also don't think it's likely that someone who has not been around these forums for years could fully understand the X-Sim moderation theory because it is rather unique and undocumented. To be honest, the moderation rules are very foreign and counter-cultural to me.

I'm also concerned that the end result will be a less effective English forum with fewer contributors as a result of the sub-forum users staying in their sub forums only.

If the English forums were stronger with more active participants, I would see this as good idea, but IMHO, the current forums need more participants and strength before a division should take place. For example, only two people showed to learn the new beta and produce manuals for the remainder of the community. One was not a native english speaker.

Just my two cents, but if the main forums aren't successful, the sub-forums will be pointless.

I agree. It's unfortunate timing though. It would be nice to have about 5 more contributors who consistently answer posts, participate in testing, create motion profiles and help create documentation for the main forums before it we had to create divisions.

Perhaps we should create sub forums only when such a contributor steps forward for a particular language? If you know of these other websites / forums, perhaps we can recruit these individuals? Without them, the sub forums could be a place of many questions and few answers since we could only answer via translator.

Is there anyone willing to translate the documentation into their native language and assist other users with their X-Sim projects in a sub forum?

I think that it would be better at least, as if they posted XSim related issues/projects solely on other websites/forums.

I thought that would be the definition of laziness ;D
What is the point of having the comfort to read in the mother language, if the author isnt able to write english in a comprehensible manner?
I can understand your position, as you are a native english speaker.
Besides, I for myself would like to have the XSim forum english only either.
But those XSim projects posted on foreign websites bother me a little bit, just to be honest.

...and dont forget that some threads here in the forum are written in other languages anyway by now.

regards

Actually this is what I have in mind :thbup:

Im from Québec so im french

At first it seam like a good idea but im not sure how popular it would be, i explain building a motion simulator its someting more difficult and complicated than a lot of hobbys and if you are dedicated to build one your someone who has will and your not afraid of new thing and you have some technical knowledge. So if you have that, you speak at least a bit english or you understand. Here in quebec its 80% french but if you want to do well in life make more money than the average jo you have to speack english and i tink its that kind of people who will be interested in sutch project. It may be not true for every contry or language but for now i tink only entousiast about sim racing will join the x-sim community. But for sure in the futur if x-sim want to be more accesible it will be a must.

For now i think we are at the stage very early adopter close to the early adopter stage. The next step is the Masse

Having tutorial video in varius language would be very helpfull as a start

Additional tutorials in different languages would be great - however - I dont see how this would motivate those who cannot speak english to post their projects here.

I'd suggest that we start with spanish, french, portuguese and russian chatterboxes once we have found moderators, and see where it goes from there.
If they wont be frequented, we can always delete them without problems, after moving their content into the english main forum.

http://www.phpbb.com/languages/

regards

+1 i think it's a good idea! in the past i have a lot off problem to understand the XSIM manual!
there are some language difference and it's very dufficult to understand technical word.

just a manual in different lauguage , it was an important works and help .

for French, i dont speak english but if i can help , its ok, i have now a little experience with simulator and X sim if you need my little help, its ok for me