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Question Direction, feeling and real movement

Discussion in 'News' started by kay, May 23, 2021.

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  1. kay

    kay New Member

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    Hello to everyone,

    I'm relative new in the sector virtual movement. I write deliberatly virtual movement, because i think the sense in motion simulation is not to lean rather to feel the direction of movement.
    when experimenting and thinking about movement and about feeling movement, i came to the following conclusion. What is happening when i sit in a car and feel surge forward and what does my motion simulator. In real live the seat presses against my back. My motion sim leans leans back tha the weight of my body gives me the pressure. But there is the way from sitting straight to leaning back, that makes a not natutal feeling. I changed the directions of sway, surge and have and its really crazy. I changed the values in the tuning center, which no longer need or are allowed to be so high. everything feels much softer and more flowing now. I have the impression that some forces worked against each other before which is no longer the case. But the best thing is, now i have the feeling of speed and not just rocking my sim. I really feel how fast or slow I am. it's less action-packed but that's what it's supposed to be about motion simulation i think. I can only recommend everyone to experiment a bit in this direction, maybe some of them already have it. I would be interested in what you think about it and whether someone has already tried it.

    Greetings from Bavaria
  2. mark_44

    mark_44 New Member

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    This is what Neils was getting at in his recent video in relation to racing sims.



    Although he was overall quite dismissive of motion for driving, he knows what he is talking about so shouldn't be ignored because you have invested a lot of time and money in creating a motion system. I've yet to try the reverse motion sway and surge theory myself, as I use VR am willing to try even though I just cant get my head around the concept!

    I would agree that the the the heave element is very immersive when going down otherwise non-eventful straights. Personally, I have vastly reduced my motion to something in the region of 25-30% of max, initially because my wife complained about the noise when there were big movements. Now even when she is not around to complain, I find myself preferring a more subtle amount of movement - with suggestion of direction rather than violent changes of direction. Less is more, but definitely doesn't mean none!
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  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Seems to me a lot of arm chair opinion based on comparing apples with oranges in terms of motion rigs, some poorly configured, and confusing the purpose of a motion rig.

    By that I mean how you configure a motion profile is dependent on the type of motion system you are are configuring it for. For example, how you configure say surge for a 6DOF, and a simulated surge for a 2DOF is opposite, by necessity. But even in a 6DOF the experienced force is constrained by the axis travel limit for surge, it can't be genuine in terms of sustained surge without employing other tricks, such as a G-Seat and/or a motion driven harness.

    Even in the real world the experience of motion for an individual is relative to the context, for example an aircraft can be put into a sustained dive that for an unconstrained passenger will be experienced as weightlessness, but experienced differently by the strapped in pilot, who will feel mass against the harness.

    The purpose of motion simulation is not to recreate actual forces, but rather to provide adequate motion cues to trick the brain into accepting that cue, much as VR does for visual stimulus. To do so motion simulation aims to exploit the weaknesses of human perception and processing.
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    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  4. kay

    kay New Member

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    i use my sim with vr. I noticed that it doesn't take much movement of the simulator to fool the brain with minimal changes in inclination, which creates the feeling that you are actually rolling over the street. i think that this is the point of a motion simulator, as the name suggests. rocking a motion platform is more like an arcade racer. difinitively both have their justification. my claim, however, is to have movement simulated. there is already a basic feeling in virtual reality, which should be reinforced by the movement simulator. I will keep working on it.
  5. wingert

    wingert Active Member

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    Surge described the movement in longitudinal direction,trying to present in a motion system braking and acceleration.Physically correct the direction for braking is backwards and for acc. forward. Although using the proper direction there is a dimension missmatch if using telemetry longitudinal acceleration mapping to a position value.
    Because human have no sensation for position either speed, only for forces deviated from acceleration, so the position value must be 2 times differentiated to get what the driver feels, only short jerks, in same circumstances for example finding a brake point even a wrong direction.
    So this preparation can not give a kind of real feeling.

    surge.jpg

    For traction loss the difference from real is, that the driver is dynamic in contrast to static in a sim.
    So if rotating the rig to simulate cornering, the driver in real resist against the movement, feeling forces from outer side in contrast in sim getting forces from inner side.
    So this preparation can also not give a kind of real feeling.
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