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Bought a custom 2DOF motion sim but no idea how it works!

Discussion in 'New users start here - FAQ' started by TheYellowBatman, Nov 29, 2020.

  1. TheYellowBatman

    TheYellowBatman New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Hi All

    So long story short my friend bought this off a guy that built this custom sim. He used it for a while then for at least a year or longer it sat at his house unconnected so I've bought it off him. Very nice pedals and shifter, good wheel and handbrake etc.

    He's forgotten how it all works, but knew it used a SimTools program. So I guess my dilemma is a bit different than most people. It should be all programmed, it should be all working, I just don't know where to start haha!

    I've done some research and this is what I've observed:
    - Uni-join connecting base to motion base
    - Motors each side
    - Has 2 boxes, one of which is a power box with a cord going to mains supply. Second box I'm going to call a control box which has power cables coming into it and random cables going out and in from the motors.
    - Control box contains a Duinotech UNO circuit board which means it runs the Arduino?
    - Control box has a usb connection coming out which I assume connects to a PC.

    Just bought the professional SimTools license, will buy a plugin for Assetto Corsa.


    So I guess the big question is how do i get this going!

    Thank You

    Justin sim1.jpg sim2.jpg sim3.jpg sim4.jpg sim5.jpg
    • Like Like x 1
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Thanks for sharing your new purchase.

    To get started can you please add a picture of the control box, so we can see what hardware is being used.

    Did the seller say it had previously been configured and used with SimTools?

    Grab a copy of the SimTools manual and keep it handy for reference: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/rtfm-start-with-the-official-simtools-documentation.117/

    Also check out the motion profile tuning tips: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/steps-to-create-a-motion-profile.228/

    The fully functional Live For Speed plugin is included in the Demo version of SimTools, specifically for testing purposes, but make sure you run it before patching LFS for motion: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/steps-to-create-a-motion-profile.228/

    SimTools (Motion Software) and Xsimulator.net (community and community developed plugins are 2 different entities: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/simtools-and-xsimulator-partnership-explained.275/

    Having purchased your rig you will need a SimTools license: https://simtools.us/licenses/

    Access to community developed plugins is either via forum activity coins, or a paid membership package: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/coins-and-how-to-download-plugins.2/

    Ask any questions you have here on your thread, so all of the information relating to your rig is in one place.
  3. TheYellowBatman

    TheYellowBatman New Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi NoorBeast

    I thought I might be the only aussie on here haha!

    The original seller who sold it to my friend did say it was previously configured and used with sim tools. My friend was the one that told me that this is the program he used to get it working. Unfortunately alot of this was done over a voice call with the original seller who provided assistance with setting it up, he can't remember much more than that and there is no message logs to refer back to.

    I have purchased the SimTools license and activated it.

    I understand I will have to earn the right to download the plugins or pay for the membership. I'd like to just test the sim first as my pedals need a connector soldered back on before I can use them. Sounds like the LFS plugin will be good to test that the sim actually works.

    I have been reading through the various FAQs and I've learnt the following things about the rig since I last posted:

    - Appears to be a Monster Moto (MM) board being used in the control box
    - Pots appear to be connected correctly at a glance
    - The motors are 12V 70W Wormdrive motors - model ZD1631 with the following stats:
    Rated Voltage 12V-13.5V
    Rated Power
    70W
    No load current
    2A/2.5A
    Loaded Current
    7.5A/9A
    No Load Speed
    45/65 RPM
    Loaded Speed
    40/60 RPM
    Stall Current
    35A Max
    Stall Torque
    35nM

    Pictures as requested:

    sim6.jpg sim7.jpg sim8.jpg sim9.jpg
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    There a quite a few Aussies who hang out here.

    As the rig has previously been configured for SimTools it is likely that compatible code is already loaded to the Arduino, we just need to know what it is. So download the Arduino IDE and install it, so you load and edit code on it, so we can advise how to set up the SimTools Interface Settings, it is likely it uses the SMC3 code, as that is popular, but there are other code possibilities: https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/Software#download

    See the Arduino set up instructions here: https://www.arduino.cc/en/guide/windows
  5. TheYellowBatman

    TheYellowBatman New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Arduino is installed and set up on my PC. Sim is powered and connected to the computer. All boards have powered up and my computer is receiving the USB signal.

    I did some searching about extracting the code from the board but it looks like that's not possible? What is the next step and how do i confirm the code used?
  6. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Lets take a guess that it is SMC3, if that is not the case you can install SMC3, as that will be the easiest for you to configure.

    So in the SimTools Game Engine Interface Settings enter these:

    Interface Type - Serial

    ComPort = the Arduino ComPort, you can find it in Windows Device Manager.

    BitsPerSec - 500000

    Data Bits - 8

    Parity - None

    Stop Bit -1

    Output Bit Range - 10

    Output Type - Binary

    Interface Output - [A<Axis1a>][B<Axis2a>]

    Output - 10ms

    Like this, but use your Arduino ComPort and Interface Output - [A<Axis1a>][B<Axis2a>], as you only have 2DOF

    [​IMG]
    • Like Like x 1
  7. TheYellowBatman

    TheYellowBatman New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    You were correct regarding the language. I entered the SMC3 settings and was able to get the motion working by using the output testing section.

    I have set the axis assignments based on the FAQ on what I think is correct for this design however when i did reverse a direction it didn't change how the sim moved?

    upload_2020-12-1_20-48-37.png

    Other things I've noted on the sim:
    - vertical connectors from motor arm to motion base are not 100% vertical. I'll have to measure distances etc but perhaps the sim is not 100% identical for mounting points from left to right. (see attached picture)
    - When going full back pitch (the front of the sim rising) the left side rises slightly slower than the right side. (this might be related to the angle of the mountings?)
    - There is a DOT2SR K-WOON VWS-100 4 ohm vibrating subwoofer under the seat which has a positive and negative wire going to nowhere. Wires currently tucked away.

    What would be my next step? Should i be tweaking settings in the game I'm going to play (most likely assetto corsa first) or should i be doing it in the LFS testing environment?

    Thank you for all your help so far! sim10.jpg

    Attached Files:

  8. ivan jack

    ivan jack Member

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    Hello ! Sorry for jumping in, on axis assignments you should have something like this because you will have conflict I think. On first Column you have both Roll and Pitch and that is no good. One column represents all motors , so column 1 roll, roll , column 2 pitch,pitch .

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  9. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    In Axis Assignments keep each axis in the same DOF column, so DOF1 would have roll 1 and 2 and so on.

    Set up for roll, pitch, sway, surge and heave.

    Next is to make sure everything moves correctly for each axis, which is controlled by the DIR box being checked orange or not, this is what SimTools expects: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/which-way-to-set-simtool-axis-movements.230/

    See my initial post about the SimTools manual and in particular the Motion Profile tuning tips, so initially do each axis at time, I would stick with LFS, once that is done its settings can be copied and then tweaked for AC.

    The transducer will need an amp and can be driven using a low pass filter on game sound, or can be managed and tuned with SimTool GameVibe.

    You can use actual hardware:

    Or a free software solution, Voicmeeter has several download options depending on the complexity required: https://vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/index.htm

    You can buy a cheap 50W 4ohm amp on the likes of Ebay, with a suitable PSU: https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_nkw=50W+4ohm+amplifier&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=15

    Personally I use the multiple daisy chained 200W bluetooth Nobsounds, as I do audio over bluetooth to save on needing cables: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/200W-No...Fi-DSP-Home-Stereo-Headphone-Amp/283259464220

    But you can also get the 100w Nobsound version, given you only have 1 transducer: https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?...itleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=nobsound+amplifier
    • Like Like x 1
  10. TheYellowBatman

    TheYellowBatman New Member Gold Contributor

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    Just to keep everyone updated, I ended up finding who the manufacturer of this sim is. It was a guy in Melbourne under the company name EMR Industries. This was the V2 model but mine appears to be the prototype. Unfortunately it looks like there is no activity on their company facebook since 2019 and their website doesn't work anymore.

    I couldn't get everything to work properly on LFS so I upgraded my membership and bought the plugins for Assetto Corsa and tried it on that. It seemed to work fine and the sim pitched forward and back depending on the incline/decline of the track. It also rolled left and right pending on the camber of the road.

    I did notice if i went hard left or right it didn't seem to roll left or right to simulate bodyroll. These observations are from sitting at my computer and having the sim connected up next to me though, So i've yet to sit in it and calibrate it with my Butt. I intend to try that later this week and will keep everyone updated!

    Thank you for the links Noorbeast. The 100W Nobsound bluetooth amp looks good and I think I will order that. Would the setup then be wires from transducer go to the Nobsound amp and then bluetooth connection from the computer to the amp?
  11. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Yes connect the Nobsound to the transducer and connect sound to it via bluetooth, though using somthing like Voicmeeter you can filter sound for the transducer and also have other sound output for VR and/or speakers as well.
  12. TheYellowBatman

    TheYellowBatman New Member Gold Contributor

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    So another update as I'm finally on holidays and work was a bit crazy.

    In good news, i managed to get the sim fully working. It was really fun and I had a good 5 or 6 separate goes on it. Worked pretty much flawlessly as a 2 DOF sim.

    In bad news, while using it last night with some friends there was a chemical/glue/plastic burning sort of smell coming from the control box. Switched the motion part of the sim off and continued racing for a bit. Turned it back on later and the smell had dissipated a lot and the motion still worked. Raced a little more and at some point the motion stopped working. Switched it off and on again and nothing. I've also noticed now in the light of morning that the sim has stopped in the roll left position. Every single other time it will return to neutral position when you get out of the game. (It's plausible that i may have even switched it off while the game was running which looking back may have been a bad idea?).

    I've rebooted everything this morning and used the output testing to try and get the sim to move without a game and it no longer responds to anything. The Arduino is still detected in the device manager. I've also had a look at the general connections going to the motors and wiggled them to see if there is poor contact. All lights seem to power on for both boards.

    I'll be opening up the control box later to see if there is anything clearly wrong but I suspect the burning/chemical smell is related to this failure. Did not have this smell any other times I used it.

    Where do I start?

    Merry Xmas guys and gals :)
  13. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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  14. TheYellowBatman

    TheYellowBatman New Member Gold Contributor

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    I think we may have found the culprit!

    Given that this was working fine, is it less likely to be a short and just that there is too much current running through the wire causing it to heat up? I can cut and solder new wire on but I don't think this solves the root cause of the issue.

    burnt wire.jpg
  15. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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  16. TheYellowBatman

    TheYellowBatman New Member Gold Contributor

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    Yeah it looked like the wire went down a size when it went from the green to the red wire.

    There is a 70A circuit breaker between the power supply and the control box but there are no fuses after that. the 70A didn't trip even when the wire melted though. Should I be running an intermediate fuse in the control box itself (maybe between the arduino and MM)?

    Is running 2 motors off a single MM ok?

    I looked at the video of testing the MM with the multimeter and the only thing i wanted to check is if there is a wiring diagram of how he's wired it up as a test rig? Mine is all soldered together so I'd have to use an oscilloscope to check it which I'll get a sparky friend to help with. But i'd like to know for future if i buy MM's how to make a test rig to check them.
  17. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Yes you can run 2 motors off a MM, the wiring should be like this:

    [​IMG]
  18. TheYellowBatman

    TheYellowBatman New Member Gold Contributor

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    Thanks NoorBeast, I'll get onto it over the holidays. Will keep you updated.

    Merry Christmas everyone and stay safe
    • Like Like x 1
  19. TheYellowBatman

    TheYellowBatman New Member Gold Contributor

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    I've never done any soldering on PCBs so I thought I would give it a go. Picked up all the stuff and I think i did a pretty good job fixing it up. Since the MM was mostly soldered I was unable to do the bench test before install as shown in the FAQ. I also don't have an oscilloscope for the other test. Figured I would just fix it up and see if the sim worked and that would tell me if the MM was faulty. A few things happened after putting it all back together that I don't fully understand and if anyone could provide any answers that would be great:

    1) When the wire melted the sim stopped in the left roll position. When i powered the system on after the repair it righted itself immediately to neutral.

    2) Fired up sim tools to do some output testing. When I initiated a roll the right motor moved but the left motor did not do anything. Then a high pitched whistle/squeal occurred and i switched the sim off. When i switched it back on the sim righted itself and I thought maybe I got the motor connections mixed up so I swapped motor signals. This time when I fired it up it started making that same squeal noise again without me even going into output testing. The squeal stopped after a few seconds and I went to test and neither motor responded. Switched motors back to the original state, and tried output testing, neither motor responded.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
  20. TheYellowBatman

    TheYellowBatman New Member Gold Contributor

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    Further testing over the last 12 hours and I've learnt a lot more but also have more questions. I'm going to try put it in dot points so its much easier to read:

    MM possibly dead and replacement?
    • MM is still possibly dead, looks to be a retired model now except from aliexpress and after reading the post regarding how bad they are I don't want to run the gauntlet.
    • After reading lots I'm thinking I could try Option 1 - Pololu VNH5019 (https://www.pololu.com/product/2507), Option 2 - A genuine MM, Option 3 - Sabretooth
    • Question: Is it as simple as removing the MM, and attaching the same connections to appropriate spots on the VNH5019? Regarding a sabretooth, if I can install it myself I've got someone that can reprogram the Arduino however they are not cheap!
    Motor whine and potentially dead motor
    • During troubleshooting heard the whine again. It is the left motor (the one that stopped moving).
    • Connected fused 12V and ground directly to right motor and then reversed polarity (it works both directions)
    • Did the same for left motor: no movement in one direction (made a whirring noise then stopped). Reversed polarity and it moved about 90 degrees then stopped. Reversing polarities back and forth it never moved again or made a sound.
    • Removed motor – connected directly to car battery, no movement either direction with reversing polarities or any sound.
    • Motor: https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/zd1631l-12v-70w-45-65-rpm-6-35nm-torque-right-angle.html
    • Question: Repair or replace?
    Panicking about pots:
    • I then had a panic remembering that I had read that you can damage pots by forcing them past their limits. (The right motor did a full 360 revolution).
    • Discovered that this sim has 6127V1A 180 degree hall sensors and after reading some of Noorbeasts previous posts I think these should be ok.