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Enclosed Sim Test: Motion compensation

Discussion in 'VR Headsets and Sim Gaming - Virtual Reality' started by lucacockpit, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. lucacockpit

    lucacockpit New Member

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    Hey everyone,

    Soooo. Motion compensation. Here're we go again, huh?

    Okay so I've read through a huge amount of threads here about this issue, and I was wondering what you guys thought about this (although I know I'm by no means the first one to think about it, but wanted to give it a try).

    When using a WMR device, in this case my HP Reverb with inside-out tracking, I was wondering if it would be able to work smoothly in an enclosed 3DOF sim.

    Quick draft of what I had in mind:

    Screenshot 2020-03-23 at 18.08.41.png
    Screenshot 2020-03-23 at 18.17.06.png
    Screenshot 2020-03-23 at 18.16.14.png

    A few notes/considerations:

    1) This would be conceived for flight simulation (P3D), flying commercial planes with little vibration or movement (compared to race driving or combat fights).

    2) The panels would be made out of extremely lightweight materials like foam board panels.

    3) There could be any type of symbols, colours or shapes on the inside-facing sides of the panels to help the camera sensors (+ enough light).

    4) Disregard the practical aspect of not being able to get into your seat for now, this is more of a proof of concept at this stage.


    My main interrogation:

    I know the Reverb also has built-in inertial sensors like an accelerometer, gyroscope & magnetometer. How much do you think they would influence the visual sensors? Which one has priority in case of conflicting data?

    I would love to discuss this with anyone interested.

    Let me know your thoughts.

    Luca
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Keith

    Keith Active Member

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    Hi Luca. I just finished my 2dof project. Everything is working well. A lot of fun. I use this with a projector as well as the Rift S. While using it with the Rift I am getting nasty motion sickness which I think is probably caused by lack of motion compensation. I am going to try and rig up some sort of temporary enclosure to see if it helps. I might just use a large rubbermaid bin or something
    • Like Like x 1
  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Some people are very susceptible to VR sickness, particularly in things like race games where you have a lot of stuff moving in your near, medium and far field of vision. But that aside a lack of motion cancellation on a large axis movement rig may add to VR sickness, but not so much on a small axis movement rigs. The more common cause is that the motion profile is not refined enough and the brain perceives conflicting cues from the VR visual and motion cues. A VR motion profile should aim to be precise and fast, so less is more in terms of reducing big axis movements.
  4. Keith

    Keith Active Member

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    Ok. I am still tweaking things. I don't get any sickness while in VR only (without the movement). I also feel fine with movement and the projector screen. I am going to try turning the movement way down and see if it helps.

    I hope I can sort this out because VR and motion together is amazing fun.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. janio

    janio janio from brazil

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    think of a 90º lateral inclination, the cockpitch remains static and the horizon rotates to vertical, when tilting the simulator 90º the rift tilts together but the cockpitch and the horizon remain in the same position, not following the rift's rotation.
  6. mechsicko

    mechsicko New Member Gold Contributor

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    I'm curious, has anyone tried mounting IR LED's to their rig to provide strong local tracking points that remain relative to the driver? Seems like if you dim the room lights and have dominant local point sources for inside out optical solutions like Rift S and WMR the tracking should work... like a reverse version of TrackIR or a simple version of Lighthouse. I have an Index so will be using a software based solution for my rig (SFX variant, wip) but was just wondering. Sorry if this is an old idea or already been covered, it seems too low hanging of fruit to not have been explored already but I haven't seen any posts or examples yet.
  7. cgodwin

    cgodwin Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Here is my enclosed simulator. It has a sliding cover and a tilt away ladder for getting in and out. When I run it with VR I put my Rift position sensor right inside on each side of the screen so they move with me. My sim has a pretty big range of motion (about 30 degrees pitch and tilt) and I'm usually pretty susceptible to motion sickness. But that setup doesn't bother me at all.

    I built mine originally for flight sim but I found the motion didn't add anything at all to the experience. If you fly with coordinated turns there is no motion. With aerobatics it is simply too much motion for the sim to recreate. Now I use it almost exclusively for car racing and a little bit of roller coaster sim but only certain coaster tracks work well.

    IMG_4916.jpg IMG_4915.jpg
    • Like Like x 2
  8. janio

    janio janio from brazil

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    but your simulator seems to provide up to 90º in the dof holl, and do you think it didn't improve the immersion in the flight?
  9. ryanosman

    ryanosman New Member

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    cgodwin... Which model of rift do you use? And just to confirm... say you're on a flat track in a racing program, you go through a hard turn to the right, your sim rolls hard to the left, but the horizon in your HMD stays level... is that right?
  10. cgodwin

    cgodwin Active Member

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    I think I have an Oculus Rift CV1. It has no model numbers on it or the box. It uses 2 sensors on short stands for position tracking. I put those sensors inside my motion sim (see the pictures above) so they move with the sim.

    The motion is what you want, which is as you described. With a hard turn on a flat track, the horizon stays level on the Rift, even though the sim rolls dramatically. As long as the 2 position sensors are mounted on the sim it shouldn't matter if it is enclosed or not since they would move with the driver.

    I haven't tried it, but it seems the Oculus Quest might be a nice option, but only with a fully enclosed sim. I'm thinking with an open sim it would pick up the surrounding room and cause a motion compensation problem. With a rare fully enclosed sim like mine it should remove some of the wiring headaches but might still require a USB cable so the game can run on a PC and allow the wheel and pedals to work. Just a guess.
  11. ryanosman

    ryanosman New Member

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    That's very interesting info. I'm led to suspect two things... 1) Your system should work equally well with just one sensor, and 2) I don't believe the sensor is looking at the walls, only the ir leds on the hmd... so even though I am surprised the IMU on the HMD isn't messing with your experience (I guess it's being CONSTANTLY 'drift corrected' by the sensor data), I have a suspicion that your sim would also work just fine without your enclosure... which instantly makes me wonder why there aren't lots of people doing it that way (grab a rift cv1, mount the sensor in front of you on the same frame as your chair, and done.)... so I suspect that I must have something wrong. I might buy a CV1 and do some testing unless someone who has tried this can explain what I haven't learned yet. (edit: I see some people have done it, and it works somewhat. so I need to read more & see why it's seen as lacking.)

    P.S. I believe my good friend used to operate a Doron SR2 at the mall there in Eugene occasionally... ever been on it?
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
  12. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Historically many of us have mounted CV1 cameras on rigs, the tracking can be affected by high frequency vibrations, which smear the infra red from clear points to smudges, and on large axis rigs you can get tracking drift.
  13. cgodwin

    cgodwin Active Member

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    My kids and I have been on that at the mall! It has been quite a few years since I've seen the Doron there. Do you live in this area?
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. ryanosman

    ryanosman New Member

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    Excellent to hear that you & your family got to experience it! Yes there has been no SR2 there for many years. My friend flew me to Eugene in 2006 to troubleshoot it. The one that went to Eugene (from its home base in Sacramento) was decommissioned only about two years ago. I still operate my heavily upgraded one every summer here in Western Canada ... well, except for this year! I'm taking this opportunity to foray into the world of 6dof mechanisms.