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Push and Pull Motors

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Geoff McIntyre, Mar 12, 2020.

  1. Geoff McIntyre

    Geoff McIntyre Member

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    I am looking to start building a 4dof sim with heave. I am a bit confused on what motor to get for the heave as it needs to be push and pull.. I was looking at 80mm MO2430 but i don't know if these are suitable for push and pull.
    Any help would be appreciated
  2. mrbean_phillip

    mrbean_phillip New Member

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    Those servos are fine, they are anyway bidirectional. It is not the servo that determines if movement can be both push- and pull, it is the physical actuator construction. DIY actuators like the SFX100 units are generally cheap and easy in design and implementation and can only push.

    Commercial units like the PT Actuator units, can do both push and pull...

    ‘Cheers,
    Beano
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Geoff McIntyre

    Geoff McIntyre Member

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    Thanks for that Beano.. I would rather build my own.(if possible).Especially after buying a 3D printer. I am still a bit unsure of what makes it bi-directional.
    This just seems a bit over my head at the moment until i get my head around this..

    Thanks
  4. mrbean_phillip

    mrbean_phillip New Member

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    Hi Geoff,
    Servo can turn both clockwise and counter-clockwise, which in turn drives a ball-screw, which drives a ball-nut up or down....similar to how the big table on a milling-machine, for example, is moved. So if the supporting mechanical bits supports both pushing and pulling, then it can be done.

    The way the current sfx100 diy actuators are designed, they can comfortably push the motion-rig up all day, where down-movement is concerned, the weight keeps the bits together, in this case, the grounded rod that fits in the other side of the slider where the ball-nut is connected to.

    but if you use this arrangement in a traction-loss implementation, for example, it can push the back one way, but as soon as it has to pull the other way, it will pull the ground rod from the slider, as it is not a mechanically strong joint...

    ‘Hopefully that clarifies it a bit.

    Cheers,
    Beano
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
  5. Geoff McIntyre

    Geoff McIntyre Member

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    Thanks for that mate.. I'll try and get my head around it.. I think i will start with the normal actuators, and then do the heave actuator last. It all sounds a bit out my depth but we will all be house bound soon so i'll need something to do..lol
  6. mrbean_phillip

    mrbean_phillip New Member

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    All good, no dramas.

    Good luck that side with your endeavours.

    Cheers,
    Beano
  7. Geoff McIntyre

    Geoff McIntyre Member

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    I am getting my head around why the actuators in the standard layout, won't work. But how do you fix the rod on both ends so it can push and pull.
  8. Thanos

    Thanos Building the Future one AC Servo at a time... or 6

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    My Motion Simulator:
    AC motor, Motion platform, 4DOF, 6DOF
    You need to mount the rods on the leadscrew nut, probably via a locking nut or some shallow screws. Get rid of the anti-rotation guide between the rod and the leadscrew nut. Its only useful on actuators where the rod is used as foot...
  9. Geoff McIntyre

    Geoff McIntyre Member

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    Thanks for that.. I think my best option is to wait till my parts arrive and then i can see better what you mean.. It's difficult to understand when you have never seen the parts before.. While your here thanos.. I watched your vid on making a shield.. I was about to order a board from JLCPCB but realised i need 5 and not 4 ports.. Does the gerber file you have do that or is there a way to change it to 5 or 6?
  10. Thanos

    Thanos Building the Future one AC Servo at a time... or 6

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    My Motion Simulator:
    AC motor, Motion platform, 4DOF, 6DOF
    Maybe use two of these open-hardware 4DOF controllers? But remember these are preset for use with SFX100 actuators meaning upside down actuator(rod as foot), 100mm stroke only and support for 1605 leadscrew only....

    If you are making custom stroke actuators with other leadscrew, you will need the AMC-AASD15A that is able to be fully customized for any actuator combination possible.

    http://motionsim.blogspot.com/2019/12/open-hardware-4dof-servo-controller.html
  11. Geoff McIntyre

    Geoff McIntyre Member

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    Ok.. what i ordered for 1 that only needs to be the same as sfx-100 but with 80mm motors and 80mm profile and i added 50mm to the length to get 150mm travel. How long is your lead out time for getting one of these??
  12. Thanos

    Thanos Building the Future one AC Servo at a time... or 6

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    My Motion Simulator:
    AC motor, Motion platform, 4DOF, 6DOF
    Its depends where you are located. USA gets next business day shipping, worldwide might delay shipping to the end of the each week as visit to post office is necessary...
  13. Geoff McIntyre

    Geoff McIntyre Member

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    Ok Thanos.. Thats good news.. I'll get it ordered in the next couple of days.. The only part that i am struggling to get for my actuators is the hollow shaft.. Is there any alternatives to h7 C60.(or any known UK suppliers) I can only source it in Germany and the postage, doubles the price of the rod..
  14. Geoff McIntyre

    Geoff McIntyre Member

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    Thats me ordered the controller. Once i get 1 actuator working then i'll look and try and get my head around it.. Is it ok to send you a PM if i have any problems??
  15. Thanos

    Thanos Building the Future one AC Servo at a time... or 6

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    My Motion Simulator:
    AC motor, Motion platform, 4DOF, 6DOF
    Sure, but you may find that unnecessary. Everything is plug and play, and there is detailed manual and even great 24 hour community support for the AMC-AASD15A controller on my Discord.

    Manual:
    https://github.com/tronicgr/AMC-AAS.../AMC-AASD15A_4DOF+TL-Simtools_manual_v2_3.pdf

    Invitation to join my Discord here:
    https://discord.gg/bx4PxYR


    Thanks
    Thanos
  16. Geoff McIntyre

    Geoff McIntyre Member

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    Brilliant.. I'll let you know when it arrives, but with the state of the world at the moment. I would'nt expect it too soon.. Is there any reasoning to the hollow rod required for the sfx style? Does it need to be 30h7 c60 or can i get 1 made from a local machine shop?? I understand the 30 and assume the h7 is the thickness but what is the c60??

    Thanks
  17. adgun

    adgun Active Member

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    C60 means its hardend ,you need it because the balls from the bearing could give galling when its not hardend.
  18. Geoff McIntyre

    Geoff McIntyre Member

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    Are there any alternatives?? The only place i can find this is in Germany and they want 25 for the part and 40 for postage to the uk..
  19. adgun

    adgun Active Member

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    There is a company in the usa ,there site name is spi or sdi further i dont know it any more.
    And they are sold on ebay in the past, you need to look
    regards AD
  20. Geoff McIntyre

    Geoff McIntyre Member

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    Thanks AD. I have checked all the usual places and they all lead back to Germany. I will have a look for the American company.. Thanks