NEW 6DOF 12V CABLE driven project

Thanos,

I just made a video of my platform with all forces from simtools output step by step.
As you can see this platform can do the SAME movements as the actuators version.
Maybe you didn't understand that for first time, it has the same layout and angles as actuator setup,
just the down force made by gravity.
here is the video I done in the morning thanx to my girlfriend to help.



pmvcda,
As you also can see in the video, with flexible cables it can do the same job with only 6 motors.

The current setup is about 60-80% to the forces. For longer movements, need a larger frame.

Guys, that was a test of this alternate to actuator system to get it much cheaper. After I planned it
it was unpredictable how it will work in real life. Now we can see it also can do the job, and there
are some other advantages I realized:

1. balancing weights are concrete cylinders - so they are static (forced by gravity you can see that silver cylinders moving up/down in the video), unlike the actuators which has rubber or spring inside, as they are exponential - making different load on motors at different positions. In this version you can set the load to the motors by adding - removing the weights amount. In this way the motors always get the same load. You don't have to change the rubber time to time, it can works for years without maintenance.

2. You can easy set up your travelling distance of the directions by adding/removing from the cable lengths. For example if you need 2 meter long travelling to surge, sway or heave (you need high room!!!) you can easily do that by making a larger frame, but the motors/rig can be the same, without extra costs. (by the way I think that should be very difficult to build that long actuators...)

3. Costs. This platform can be very cheap if you can order everything from china. My total costs was about 1.000.- eur all to this platform. OK, you can make it by alu frame that will be a bit more stable, but increasing the costs with some bucks.

I think with larger frame and smaller angles to the suspension points that can be capable
to car racing also. In this case should be better with 24V regulators and smaller diameter
cable drums - resulting faster and sharper movements for racing.

All in all - I think it is a really good alternate to build.

Cheers,
George

I notice a touch of unwanted swing on directional changes I just would like to suggest maybe a Stewart platform underneath made with light weight dampers if you can find any with that amount of travel I think car boot struts might be too strong should give you better inertia feel if you can come up with something

Thinking about it some more they would need to be springless reverse action dampers maybe a DIY job you can make something cheap? Dunno could be wrong

sam poole,

The movement that you noticed cased by the discontinous movements of the mouse done by my girlfriend at output testing. If you just check the beginning of the video you can see that she was moving the sliders a bit hectic. (that was the first time to her) With these angles of the cables to the suspension points can case this effect with these movements, but in the sims it is not noticeable. (I only tested with flight and space sims) With car sims I'm sure that have to use more angled cables resulting more horizontal stability, but need a larger frame. I only had a 2m x 2m space.

Cheers,
George

@George Dobransky interedting....
How fast can the cable go, 200mm/s or 300mm/s?
Also, at what speed the cable starts to slip?

Thanks for sharing.

Hi there,

It depends on how big cable drums are you using and what is your working volt. These gate moving chinese motors are 24v, but I'm running at 12v, with 15cm diameter drums. The turning speed of the motors with this config is about 1.5 sec/ 360 degree, meaning the travelling speed of the cables are 47cm /1.5 sec. The movement of the platform also depends on the distances of the suspension points of platform to the center. Longer distances - smaller angles.
For the first time before start to build has to measure the space what you have and plan what movement distances you need. These chinese cheap IBT2 regulators can handle 5-28v, so I think it should be better if you run with 24v and 10-15 cm diameter drums - resulting faster movements, if you need. In this case this config can do 0,75 sec/ 47cm travelling to the cables. In this way you can lift 1 meter up or down in 1.5 sec, which are good for heave force feel. In my experience for flight - my current, 12V setup is enough, but maybe I will also change the power supplies to 24 v, and smaller drums.
For power supply I recommend you to use 500W LED supplies/pair of motors, they are so cheap and can do the job. (owing to the balancing weights) especially at 24 volt - working with smaller amps.

If any, questions, don't hesitate to ask guys!

Cheers,
George

Thank you very much. This looks like an excellent project for my flight sim. But, at this moment I just have no time. I may come back to you later in the near future.

@George Dobransky
I wonder if you could configure the connection of cable on the base differently. See the video below, ofc he used 8 motors, you use 6 motors,



Would be better that way?

More motors - more stability especially at lateral movements. 6 motors system is the minimum for
6 DOF. With the linked layout you need a large scale room to build, and you have to take care about the
usb cables, -they cannot be elongate unlimited. In my project I had some issues with that for first time....
Nice layout btw, it is also a good alternate. A bit similar to this project: (but that is not an 1.000.- eur project..



Cheers,
George

Hi All,

According to Joe's asked me about starting his own project, items list, etc, I decided to write here,
maybe the others also can get some good ideas or usable info, so here is my advices to start:

Hi Joe,

Glad to hear that you'll start this kind of project, have fun with that when finished!

First about vibration - it is not necessary, 'coz from the simulator all movements
coming from the software, so at the ground you have also forces and movement, landing,
thermal effect while flying, etc. you have everything, no need any additional vibration or movements.

So...For start..You can start with getting the arduino boards and the regulators, here are them from china:
(3x arduino boards, and 6x ibt2 - BTS7960B regulators)

https://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-...a16U2-AVR-USB-Board-p-68537.html?rmmds=search

https://www.banggood.com/Semiconduc...o-p-928634.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN

The wiring is so simple, you can find it here, but take care about this is MODE2 wiring!! and has to be modified at arduino code before use!!!

https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...3dof-motor-driver-and-windows-utilities.4957/

In this system you'll need 3 pcs of wired units (1 x arduino board with 2 x BTS7960B regulators each) for 6 motors
(3 pairs, 1 wired unit for 2 motors)

After you have done with wiring can buy the power supplies. Each pair of motors you'll need 1x 500w 24v supply. 3 pieces of supplies all. They can get from LED shops for cheap. Then you can wire them to the regulators (1 supply to 2 regs.) At that point you have to download and install the softwares you need (also find at the SMC3 link) and after you can test the config if everything is OK with multimeter or with 24v light bulbs. If its working OK, you can buy the motors. Mine are from my town, they are
gate moving motors, you have to ask the guys are installing gates and electric garage
doors and garden gates about it. They are also made in China, and they are 24V. Here is costs about
70 usd each, brandnew.

Before frame works, you can do these steps. After comes the frame.
Just inform me when you have already finished these works and I'll help you
to start the frame.
Send me pics about the process of the project!
For first time that's all,

Cheers,
George, Hungary

Hello George,

I like your project!!!! Thank you so much for this thread!
I'm searching for so a dof

My idea is:
4 Corners in the room, 4 cabel, 4 motors/winches.

SO, die have you Connect irgendwann with your pc?
Arduino and sabertooth?
What a Code have you used?
Which motors have you?
Why 6 and Not 4 cabel?

I know a lot of questions but i Hope you can help me!


greets

Hi There,

Happy to someone interested this method again. BTW, mine is still working flawlessly, after more than one year everyday use...

I has written a detailed info about my project, I just copied it again, but the short answers are:
Arduino
SMC3 code,
Chinese 12/24 motors
6 motors'coz of 6DOF system. (yaw/roll/pitch/surge/heave/sway) with 4 motors you can only get roll/pitch/heave and not enough stabilization.

Here is the detailed info:

So...For start..You can start with getting the arduino boards and the regulators, here are them from china:
(3x arduino boards, and 6x ibt2 - BTS7960B regulators)

https://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-...a16U2-AVR-USB-Board-p-68537.html?rmmds=search

https://www.banggood.com/Semiconduc...o-p-928634.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163973573735

The wiring is so simple, you can find it here, but take care about this is MODE2 wiring!! and has to be modified at arduino code before use!!!

https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...3dof-motor-driver-and-windows-utilities.4957/

In this system you'll need 3 pcs of wired units (1 x arduino board with 2 x BTS7960B regulators each) for 6 motors
(3 pairs, 1 wired unit for 2 motors), here you can buy:


After you have done with wiring can buy the power supplies. Each pair of motors you'll need 1x 500w 24v supply. 3 pieces of supplies all. They can get from LED shops for cheap. Then you can wire them to the regulators (1 supply to 2 regs.) At that point you have to download and install the softwares you need (also find at the SMC3 link) and after you can test the config if everything is OK with multimeter or with 24v light bulbs. If its working OK, you can buy the motors. Mine are from my town, they are
gate moving motors, you have to ask the guys are installing gates and electric garage
doors and garden gates about it. They are also made in China, and they are 24V. Here is costs about
70 usd each, brandnew.

Before frame works, you can do these steps. After comes the frame.
Just inform me when you have already finished these works and I'll help you
to start the frame.
Send me pics about the process of the project!
For first time that's all,

Cheers,
George, Hungary

Oh thank you!!!

Now i have to read and learn

How big is your room?

The room size is not matters, my outer frame size is 2.5m X 2.5m X 2.5m.(triangle)

Cheers,
George

A unique project with balances, thanks for the idea.

Thx!
And it still works flawlessly without any maintenance! with almost every-day usage. (3-4 hours/day!)

Cheers,
George

Thanks for making this thread!

I have been looking for examples of a project like this off and on for a few years, and in the past I have only seen that giant robot rig that looks super awesome but is not something I can build in my house (or on my budget).

Have you tried this setup with racing games since it has been built? I am interested in building one of these for use with a few different types of VR experiences: space sims such as Elite Dangerous, racing games such as Dirt Rally, and roller-coaster games or prebuilt experiences. If you have used your rig for either of the other two types of games, it would be cool to hear your opinions on how it works and any remaining problems that need to be solved.

Also, I didn't see a diagram of the pulley and cable configuration, but based on the movement test, it looks like the basic diagram is the gate motor and drum at the top, at the mid point is a pulley, and then the cable attaches to the moment platform. The counterweights are hung between both pulleys. Did I miss any of the important parts of the rigging?

I am also curious if a 3D printer board could be used with the right set of stepper motor drivers instead of using multiple arduinos. I have yet to look at the code for any of the tools that are being used to interface the sim platform to the physics engine of a game, but for 3d printers it is just a series of "move X distance" commands, so I don't think it would be too difficult to create a plugin that converts movements into G code. The latest 3d printer boards have 32 bit processors and even the midrange aftermarket boards have support for 6 stepper motor drivers and some offer even more driver support. There are also inexpensive closed loop addons that can correct missed steps. My free time is pretty limited, but this is something that I would like to learn more about, and since there are so many open source options in 3d printing, it does seem like it could be possible to write a plugin that connects to the physics converter and translates into G code, or at the very least it could be used for precreated VR experiences such as rollercoasters.

Thanks for posting, I am much more excited about a suspension type system now that I have seen a working proof of concept.

Hi There!

OK, let's see it in a row.

So, I have tested the platform with several titles, but mostly I'm using with flight sims, like ED, FS2020, DCS, XP11. It is also working with race sims, but -depended on the motors- with racing sims could be a bit slow, but to me it was fast enough. If you want, you can use this config with 24v power supplies - making the system much faster. It is working now at me 3 years (almost everyday usage) without any issues.

The pulley and cable configuration is exactly that you wrote. Last year I had a modification with drums - I have changed the drum size diameter from 15cm to 10cm. It is a bit smoother and stronger. (but not slower!!!)

I was also think about a stepper motor solution- but arduino version was much easier to execute.

This is still a good working and low budget solution for 6dof moving platforms. There are now a well designed version now on the market based my plans - my friends started to make business with that rig, here are some photos about their finished and designed version. But as a low budget version you can follow my prototype version made by wood frame....

If you have any questions, feel free to ask!

Cheers,
George

Thanks for the feedback on the racing sims and the update on drum size. If you didn't suffer any speed loss it seems there is plenty of torque in the gate motors. I am thinking of using wheelchair motors, but I am curious to see if this can be done with junkyard wiper motors since the system is counter balanced so well. I really like the idea that the counterweights can quickly be changed based on the player, for roller coaster sims it could allow a side by side seat to be used with pre-rendered levels.

I hope to document the build process once I start, though I have 1 more year of school before I can dedicate the time required for a big project like this, so for now I am trying to get the design planed and start ordering used parts when ever good deals pop up on ebay.

Those commercial rigs look very polished! Based on the assumption that the seat back is around 1 meter, it looks like the Kondor's design is a bit shorter than the first run version which is great for rooms with low ceilings. I looked for the website but didn't seen anything come up (I'm in the US), are these used as attractions for carnivals/fairs/air shows or are they being sold in kits? Maybe you can tell me what version of google to use for searching (I know in German it changes .com for .de).

Unfortunately, they has no capacity to sell it overseas, maybe later, so
you have to build you own rig...

Cheers,
George