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Traction Loss setting

Discussion in 'SimTools Plugins' started by Gelatin, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. Gelatin

    Gelatin Active Member

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    Hello :confused:

    I use scn actuators for a while, and I believe in that a good motion simulator must have a well tuned traction loss axis to get an awesome, right feeling during drive.

    But...
    I've tried to tune this traction loss axis for long time in a really bumpy way, but I have not found any really good solution yet to get this awesome feeling.

    What I realised, all of plugin's extra1 just not pure...
    All my software's plugins (does not matter which one... iRacing, LFS, pCars, RRE...) send a strange effect.
    I've tried already to use and tune extra1 by washout and deadzone filters, or play with speed, acceleration, tuning center's value, but I think it's problem not came from that way.

    The Extra1 keeps transmit false values. IT works as if I had given a SWAY value as well to the axis. I mean traction loss axis responde to all of my steering motions, even I've not loosing any grip.
    I must say that I have traction loss values as well, the traction loss effect works well but beyond that basic sway feeling.

    Did anyone experience anything like this or just have something wrong with me?
    Perhaps someone has a solution for this, because it is so frustrating...
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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  3. Gelatin

    Gelatin Active Member

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    Thx, but I've read them already and there is no useable information... the washout and deadzone are useless to fix this issue...
    Unfortunately I do not understand programming, but I would be very curious what causes this strange movement, because it should be quite simple. One axis one information - extra1.
    No other four values to mix them right.

    Actually I've not found any good solution yet to manage this problem, and to be honest that traction loss axis has no sence with this strange values.
    The feeling is good for amusement park but just not right for real.

    Perhaps find somewhere any information to uderstand that what values coming from games as Extra1 and what could be the solution to get this traction loss purely?
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    It is not a problem generic to multiple plugins, rather it is a problem specific to your hardware or tuning.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    Post up your settings, then we can advise.
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  6. Gelatin

    Gelatin Active Member

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    My setting is 49% extra1, because I actually wouldn't want to use a full range of traction loss, and I'm playing with a combo of destination, speed, acceleration, and there is a good one at 49% momentarily.
    the tuning centre value is 3 by now, but I've tried 1-8 already. using filters as well,I've tried almost all variation of filters... mixing up with or without deadzone, smooting, washingout ... together, separately...

    What could causes this strange 'sway' feeling in traction loss information? perhaps I have no any tool to wash this rubbish value directly out?
    If I try to wash it out, than I wash the right traction loss values out as well. that is the point. I could not solve this problem by filters without any daamage of traction loss values too.

    It's shouldn't be my hardware even Simtools fault perhaps... do not know... lost...

    the only one temporary solution what I could do that I turned off real sway of the other axes... that is sick.
  7. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    you are WAYYYYY Tooo low on turning center and with Traction loss, Linearity if your Friend, open up that 49% to 100%, Why limit it a all ?

    Please post up pictures of your Axis Assignments + tuning center and i can advise from there.
  8. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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  9. Gelatin

    Gelatin Active Member

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    thanks for replies guys.
    :cheers
  10. PIM1

    PIM1 VR Racer

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    can I ask if you could only choose one of these options what would it be ?

    high end wheel or traction loss ( I have prosimu 2dof)

    Thanks
  11. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    Go wheel First....TL is great and all, But a DD wheel is a WHOLE new ball game for FFB and overall immersion.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. PIM1

    PIM1 VR Racer

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    Ok great I am leaning towards that idea :) just need to upgrade my GPU first ha.
  13. Kevinski

    Kevinski If it doesn't fit, hit it until it does.

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    He
    @Nick Moxley Hello Nick. Hopefully you’ll see this message as this is an older post. I’d love the opportunity to post all my settings as I’ve been struggling with a similar issue with my traction loss doing the same. I’m sure it’s sway getting mixed up with extra 1 input.

    I’m right at the start of getting my 3DOF rig tweaked and I’m doing this with a mix of LFS and Assetto Corsa. The traction loss issue described by Gelatin in this post is prevalent for me as well in both games with my current settings. I’ve got it better after a few hrs, but it is still an unnatural feeling TL for sure.

    Quite simply, where is the best place to start? With so many different settings that can optimise or ruin an axis, where is the best place to start with the overall tweaking of a 3DOF rig? I feel I need to zero everything and start fresh so where to start?

    One axis at a time in the axis assignments? Tuning centre auto capture first? Which need to be done first? You must need DOF’s set to something in axis assignments before tuning centre will work yes? This is some of the grey areas I’m unsure of.

    Once I get some sound advice on where to start, I will post screen shots of my settings as I tweak. Or is this a case of just spending the hrs trying everything until it’s right for you?. Cheers.
  14. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    I am sure @Nick Moxley will see your request when popping in at some future time, but has not been about since Dec 29, 2022, so is obviously busy with other aspects of life at the moment.

    So in the meantime may I suggest that each axis is initially done individually, particularly for the 2DOF axis involved, as SimTools does mix those settings on the fly, see here for tips: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/steps-to-create-a-motion-profile.228/

    TL is a dedicated axis, so SimTools does not mix other axis settings with it, but it is important TL be tuned to compliment all other axis settings and movement.
  15. Kevinski

    Kevinski If it doesn't fit, hit it until it does.

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    @noorbeast you are rock solid as always mate. I have extra 1 set on a seperate axis to the 2DOF so I got that right at least. I’ll fiddle some more this afternoon and evening and than I’ll post screen shots of my settings and get some advice. When should I tackle the tuning/auto capture features?

    after I have basic DOF’s input?
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  16. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    You can capture the base Tuning Center values and the tweak from there.

    Keep in mind that the lower the TC value the more sharp the response, but over a limited axis range, while conversely the larger the TC value the softer/gentler the response, but over a greater axis range.
  17. Kevinski

    Kevinski If it doesn't fit, hit it until it does.

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    @noorbeast no worries. I’m just not sure how the relationship between the DOF axis assignment values and what values you set in the TC values effect each other. I’m worried one value will mess up the other.
  18. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Where an axis shares multiple Axis Assignments, SimTools will mix responses on the fly, which is actually a really neat feature.

    Where there is a dedicated axis, such as TL, SimTools will treat setting accordingly.
  19. Kevinski

    Kevinski If it doesn't fit, hit it until it does.

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    @noorbeast had some really good success tonight with tweaking the rig. I ended up using a combo of sim tools and SMC3 power settings to get the traction loss breaking loose only when it should. Really happy. My DOF settings are quite low for some axis, as low as 8 for example on the roll axes. Where the TL is set at 90 DOF with some washout and dead zone added in the filter Params, along with some SMC3 power tweaks. Surge is also set higher at around 50 DOF axes with pitch at 25 sway at 7 and heave at 10. Felt amazing ripping around Nordschleifer this afternoon.
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  20. Kevinski

    Kevinski If it doesn't fit, hit it until it does.

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    @noorbeast tell me about your spring assist on your RIG.