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Basic 2DOF Configuration and FAQ

Discussion in 'New users start here - FAQ' started by cauehawaii, Apr 16, 2009.

  1. cauehawaii

    cauehawaii New Member

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    Hello Guys, not necessary to say that this forum is THE BEST!
    Shortening things, after reading A LOT of information about the sim subject, I really need to start buying the parts and building my race sim asap, otherwise I may just lose my motivation with such a massive amount of information we can find out there.

    I will have the seat below over the 2DOF motion system using an universal joint.
    I want to use two wiper motors on my project.
    I have basic (very basic) experience with electronics, I would like to keep this part as simple as possible (if that is even possible).
    I could purchase the commercial itens or just order online some of Thanos custom solutions posted on the forum.

    To get moving I would like to have some answers from the Pros, that would be a tremendous help

    1. Someone with any feedback about this type of universal joint?
    2. Electronics: What is the best/correct:
    Wiper motors -> Parallax HB-25 -> > Basic Stamp2 -> Serial Port (I CHOSE THE OPTION BELOW)
    Is this too old?,
    Is it the easier method?

    Wiper motors > Dual Simple Mosfet H-Bridge By Thanos -> AVR Motion Controller v1.5 by Thanos -> Potentiometers -> Serial port
    Is this possible to order online Thanos custom boards from PCB makers? (ALREADY ORDERED)
    What / where is the latest version of Thanos work?
    What would be the solution for the AVR controllers if I want to purchase commercial solutions?

    Thanks in advance for helping out. I will be looking forward anxiously for answers

    Attached Files:

  2. cauehawaii

    cauehawaii New Member

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    OK guys, I bought the seat, the universal joint and extension, the popolus Dual VNH3SP30. I have also sent the dimensions of the structure to a friend of mine who will build it with aluminum, I believe it will be lighter and help the motors. I have also quoted from some PCB makers the price for Thanos AMC, the problem is that so far the price is a bit salty. If someone have a spare board at home please let me know :)

    I am still researching about the wiper motors, I am a little afraid they will not do the work, but perhaps I don´t know much about their real power. Should I go for the 12vdc wiper motors? any other suggestion? I am expecting to buy them this weekend so in one more week I should have everything delivered.

    I welcome any comment.
    thanks

    Attached Files:

  3. OscarH

    OscarH Member

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    Hi Cauehawaii,

    Did you ever try to stop manually a wiper on your car ? The best you can do is to bent it, not stop it...
    They have a lot of power. To be honest, not checked how much they can lift, but sure 10ths of kilograms.

    Please note 3 points :
    - Internal gear box is often made plastic, so you can wear out pulley over the time if too much lift is needed
    - If you try to lock the motor, then the current will increase a lot and will either limit (power supply), burnt the power supply or the electronic driver or the motor.
    - If your seat is nto well balanced, then you will drive current into the motor to keep it horizontal. In my early design, motor was driving 3.5 amps just to stay horizontal, wasting 42 Watts for nothing, and warming motor quickly.

    Cheers.
    OscarH
  4. Mambo

    Mambo New Member

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    Look here http://www.opis.cz/nidec-valeo/snek24V.html they have plenty of motors with datasheets (where you can see torque/current/rpm diagram)
    and then if you do basic math (F=M/r F-force M-moment r=lenght of arm ) you get force (max) that you get from motor . You must experiment how mutch force you need or you can do 3D model and simulate it. Its all about high speed or high force (or high price :D )
  5. cauehawaii

    cauehawaii New Member

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    Thanks Mambo..that is very good.. I just came from a junkyard but I dindt wanna buy the wipers yet before I make sure they will work with my layout
    Perhaps I may go for a different motor after checking your list...
    anyone knows if Thanos AMC would work well with any motor??

    Also, I just received a quote from a PCB Maker from down here, they asked me 150US$ (300R$) for three pieces of Thanos AMC board..(their minimum order)..
    do you guys know where I can find the files for the latest version of Thano´s H-Bridge?? I already have a Dual popolus, but I would like to build also Thanos H-Bridge. I cant find the latest version

    Thanks
  6. Mambo

    Mambo New Member

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    You should wait for new H-Bridge more power is always good :D
  7. cauehawaii

    cauehawaii New Member

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    Thanks man...but I cant wait anymore :) I really need to get going I have spent hours + hours reading, learning, now I need to get working...to learn the practical side.. perhaps later on I just order the new and more powerful Hbridge... for now I believe that Thanos version from tronic-s-diy-dual-mosfet-h-bridge-dsmhb-t820-50.html will do the job..right?!?!?!

    any special reomendation I should give to the PCB makers?
  8. Mambo

    Mambo New Member

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    So far is DSMhb best (until DSMhb 150 :D )
    only recommendation for PCB use thicker copper layer.
  9. cauehawaii

    cauehawaii New Member

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    a few improvements..
    i ordered this 24V wiper motor...how do I connect it on the H-Bridge?

    Attached Files:

  10. OscarH

    OscarH Member

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    Hi,

    The Positive input of wipers motor is either the Red or the dark green. One is the high speed, the other is the low speed.
    The negative part is connected to the frame. Use a power-supply or a battery to test which commection is high/low speed. (On mine high was green)

    The connections on the back of the gear box are simply used to bring the wiper motors back to the same possition (to insure the wipers does not stop in the middle of the wind-shield). you can removed all these connection and connect your H-bridge between the chassis and the Red/dark green.

    Be carreful, as I stated earlier, the negative is tied to chassis, so it does mean - if you use 2 motors - either your motor needs to be isolated from chassis or you should open it to isolate negative from chassis and add a wire. I am almost sure Tronic's H-Bridge support a common line between different motors. I know my HB-25 didn't and I got really strange behaviors...
    Hope this help a bit.
    CHeers.
    OscarH
  11. cauehawaii

    cauehawaii New Member

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    thanks oscar,
    first I need to find out wich one is high speed/low speed - dark green and red, correct?
    then

    The connections on the back of the gear box are simply used to bring the wiper motors back to the same possition (to insure the wipers does not stop in the middle of the wind-shield). you can removed all these connection and connect your H-bridge between the chassis and the Red/dark green.

    Do you (or anyone) have any pictures of how this was done?
  12. cauehawaii

    cauehawaii New Member

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    I found some information about my wiper motor at the bosch website including Data Sheet, Connection Diagram, etc at:
    http://www.ledico.com/en/elektromotoren ... chnung.htm

    I would be glad if someone could help me to understand the info they provided...and how I can connect the cables on the H-Bridge and on the power supply (if you have some photos to post it would be great )

    thanks a lot
  13. OscarH

    OscarH Member

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    Hi Cauehawaii,

    Please find attached a picture of one of my wipers motor cabling.
    As you can see, I used the green wire as it was the 'fast' speed. The transparent wire you can see is coming from inside the motor.
    I had to open it and isolate the negative pole of the motor and connect it to this transparent wire. I had to isolate both wires, because my two motors are both connected to chassis and HB 25 does not support common wires.

    You can also see I dropped the swithes to return motor to initial position.

    Hope this help.
    Cheers.

    OscarH

    Attached Files:

  14. cauehawaii

    cauehawaii New Member

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    Thanks Oscar,
    What are you using for Power Supply?
  15. OscarH

    OscarH Member

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    Hi,

    I am using a professionnal Power Supply, an HP 6672A that can deliver 100 Amps under 30 volts. So far, my setup is 14 Volts, and I limited the current to 15 amps max. For prior testing, I was using a standard Car Battery. This was also very good, but did not had the current limitation, sometime usefull in the development phase :D

    Hope this help.

    Btw, don't forget to set your location ... http://www.x-simulator.de/forum/phoogle.php?mode=everyone
    We are all interested in your country of origin.
    CHeers.
    OscarH
  16. cauehawaii

    cauehawaii New Member

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    Thanks OscarH,
    I hope I can find something a little cheaper than yours power supply:)

    Do I need a Linear Power Supply or Switched Power Supply, do you know that????
    you don´t have pictures of the connections you made inside the motor, would you?

    I updated my location on the map, I am from São Paulo, Brazil. Thanks for all the help, and please feel free to post anything that may be helpful for my sim...since I started posting I have changed my layout a lot, but for sure it will be better than my original idea...

    PS. I built my universal joint yesterday. Today I will hook it to the seat and finish my layout...
    just waiting for buying the correct power supply and also for the pcb boards to arrive.

    Attached Files:

  17. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    Olá,

    the universal joint seems a little out of square. You may not be able to move the seat that way, imho.

    regards
  18. cauehawaii

    cauehawaii New Member

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    thanks for the post egoexpress
    one of the universal joint was welded out of square and I did not notice, but I fixed like the pics below..I am sure there will be some small adjustments when everything is seated in place. Thats why I have some extra aluminum bars here..

    thanks a lot for all your help... cant wait to get this thing moving...

    regards
    Caue

    Attached Files:

  19. cauehawaii

    cauehawaii New Member

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    Purchased
    Switched Power Supply Stabilized 201W 24V 8A
    I will trty to make the test connections myself..hope not to burn anything :)
  20. cauehawaii

    cauehawaii New Member

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    ok, the seat support and universal joint are very stable..pics below
    perhaps a few adjustments when I attach it to the motors, but nothing major. I am working on the wheel suuport now.. I have seen some videos online wth fixed wheel attached to tabletops and some wheells that move with the seat. Any thoughts about it??
    I will attach my wheel and pedals to the seat so it will move together..I will post more pics later today

    Attached Files: