1. Do not share user accounts! Any account that is shared by another person will be blocked and closed. This means: we will close not only the account that is shared, but also the main account of the user who uses another person's account. We have the ability to detect account sharing, so please do not try to cheat the system. This action will take place on 04/18/2023. Read all forum rules.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Now a Download Plan!
  3. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  4. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant. Do not follow these rules can lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.
    Are you a company? Read our company rules

Showroom Andrew's Full frame mover 2DOF - now with action vids and backlash issues

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by delcarlo, Mar 31, 2017.

  1. dualclick76

    dualclick76 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    163
    Location:
    italia
    Balance:
    10Coins
    Ratings:
    +40 / 0 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    I really like the work I do, it seems very professional, I'm curious to see a video ....
  2. delcarlo

    delcarlo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    439Coins
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor
    heya, thanks for the feedback.. shes not moving yet. just waiting on a bunch of stuff like power supplies and cables ive ordered to show up.. hopefully here this week

  3. delcarlo

    delcarlo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    439Coins
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor
    uurrghh.. just checked all the tracking on the various bits and bobs i need to get this rig running and everything appears to be arriving this week except the cnc couplers (ill use some rubber hose till that shows up) and my really nice silicon covered 12 gauge cable.. either i thought it was going to take me alot longer to build the rig or i wasnt paying attention on ebays estimated delivery. the china post tracking info says its still 4-5 weeks away.. guess im heading down to the shops and paying more for crappier cable..

    just sat my old man on the rig and sent power to one of the motors full tilt off a car battery to see how it coped being fully loaded.. haha wow its quick.. should be pretty violent..
    it scared him a bit.. very excited to get these motomonsters hooked up..
    i purposely designed the mounts so the motors can spin full 360 deg without hitting anything incase of malfunction
  4. delcarlo

    delcarlo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    439Coins
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor
    While I wait for stuff to arrive, I thought I'd make a start on the electronics enclosure.. Decided to upcycle an old computer chassis from work as we've just upgraded a bunch of old machines. The dell power supplys fitted well after I took to the case an angle grinder, hammer and tin snips.

    3d printed a platform to mount the motomonsters, arduino and the fans that came free with my power supplys... I tested the fans out today, they're a bit noisy. Might have to slow them down somehow. They say theyre brushless, 12v and have 4 wires. So with any luck I might be able to send them a PWM signal from the arduino for speed control.. later.. will run them noisy for now

    Heat sinks with integral fans (northbridge style cooler) for the MMs are still ages away like the power cables, so just going to run some I found at the local nerd shop this evening and hope my jet engine fans will keep everything cool.. I'm sure they will.. as they blow around a category 6 cyclone wind, and with the way the case is now it makes a really nice tunnel of wind over all of the electronics

    the fancy shape, and speed holes on the electronics mount isn't there to be fancy, it cuts the print time down by about 40% from my first design which was far more boring

    are the full images on the thread difficult for people to read? I've noticed alot of people here prefer to post thumbnails instead (this thread is quite graphic intensive now.. haha) IMG_0246.JPG IMG_0249.JPG IMG_0250.JPG IMG_0251.JPG
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. dualclick76

    dualclick76 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    163
    Location:
    italia
    Balance:
    10Coins
    Ratings:
    +40 / 0 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Congratulations on the work I do, I like the base system for mm and arduino
  6. delcarlo

    delcarlo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    439Coins
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor
    and we have motion!! Sorry no video yet as i had a curfew yesterday for daddy duties, wifey wanted to go out for dinner with her friends.

    I was tuning the motion using SMC3utils, and I understand the whole PID thing. but what i'm curious is how close on the square wave are the rest of people on here getting to?
    obviously my sim has more inertia than some. but it would be good to see some graphics of what others are getting to.. I believe jrk utilities have similar graphs

    one of my dell power supplies keep tripping. i have a feeling its a heat thing because i have the fan turned down low (supposed to be 62A afterall).. so i'll experiment with giving that a pwm signal rather than an earth as described in the tutorial as they dont seem to speed up by themself as described in the HP tutorial
    <edit: not a heat thing, just too much inertia on quick direction change and big current spikes, cant run the motors at more than "180" on pwmMax without tripping a 62A power supply on the square wave output of SMC3utils>

    my graphs follow quite well on triangle and sine waves and 'simulated motion', obviously the square is impossible to follow exactly,
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
  7. delcarlo

    delcarlo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    439Coins
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor
    Ok managed to squeeze a bit of time on the sim today to try out rfactor2. Need to tone her down as it's very abrupt. But I only seem to get angles based on the surface of the track (i.e. Tilt left right forward and backwards when going up or down hill or track angles that way). After some reading in between the lines I assume I have to enable sway and surge to get cornering and braking forces working? I thought these were only for sims who could physically move in those directions
  8. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    20,461
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    144,602Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,741 / 52 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
  9. delcarlo

    delcarlo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    439Coins
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor
    yeah i literally just finished reading that post as i got the notification for your reply

    i think that needs to be in the simtools quick start thread. its not obvious to a new comer that a 2 axis sim needs atleast 4dof configured to make sense and that roll and pitch doesnt simulate cornering and braking forces out of the game engine. they only simulate the angle of the surface

    i was under the impression the game engine does all of that mixing and i was configuring it for the two axis my motors moves (roll and pitch)... (well re-reading what i just wrote, this is exactly what its doing. but not without configuring it correctly) maybe some note about roll and pitch are for angles of the track and sway and surge for cornering forces and accel/braking right there in the quick start guide? even the simtools documentation doesn't make that overly clear
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. delcarlo

    delcarlo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    439Coins
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor
    Oh man I just found a gorgeous recreation of my local track for Assetto Corsa.. pity my sim is at my office or there may be an all nighter of configuration going on!
    now I just need to find a 370z

    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    20,461
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    144,602Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,741 / 52 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Just letting you know the video did not post correctly.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. delcarlo

    delcarlo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    439Coins
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor
    I'm guessing someone fixed it?

    ok video time, ignore the hands not synced on the sim, i'm guessing i still have some sort of driver aids turned on as the sim guy seems to be doing alot more wheel work than me..

    question, need some help here.. the rig is very snappy, which is cool.. but it seems when the motors brake they hit hard, feels like they hit a wall its so snappy.. wondering where abouts i go to soften it up a bit without losing travel in the axis or dof

    example, if I turn hard left, simtools tells the sim hey your at full right tilt,
    arduino commands motor to go there then tells it to stop when it gets there..
    this stop is **BANG** stopped... its quite abrupt.. i'm afraid if i tune it out in the pid settings i'll lose fidelity for bumps and ripple strips etc..
    but if i try to tune it out with the tuning centre it just results in less travel,
    and if i try to tune it out with % in axis assignments of game engine it also seems to limit total travel for that dof.

    I've had a play around with smoothing and deadzone in filters but it doesnt seem to help..

    its quite distracting, need to tune in some sort of soft stop njust not sure where is the best place for said tuning

  13. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    20,461
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    144,602Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,741 / 52 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    You don't tune with the PID settings once you have them set, rather you use the Axis Allocation and Tuning Center to tune, and if needs be filters.

    A larger Tuning Center value will soften the motion over a larger axis movement while a smaller value will do the reverse.

    As per the link I previously posted do one axis force at a time.
  14. delcarlo

    delcarlo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    439Coins
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor
    Thanks for the reply. I have been doing one at a time
    Sway particularly is my issue right now. Surge feels quite natural. I'll make it a bit snappier for gear changes later

    In ASsetto Corsa max/min values for sway set at 1.5/-1.5 at the moment and range of motion feels good. But it almost feels like it hits a hard stop when the motors reach their requested position (not at the limits of motion capable). If I increase that number it seems to reduce the total travel for sway. So for example first corner at 1.5 I get about 6 degrees tilt to the left. If I increase sway in tuning center I now only get 3 degrees of tilt for the same cornering g-force. But it still hard stops. I'll have more of a play tomorrow. At least I know to stay away from PIDs. Cheers!

    I'm wondering if it's actually lash in the gearboxes I'm feeling. I.e. Sim travels a lil further after motor stops and crashes into the other side of the worm gear

  15. delcarlo

    delcarlo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    439Coins
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor
    OK, I have figured out the banging I was trying to describe is lash in the gearboxes that I am feeling at the end of a quick move.. which is pretty annoying as there isnt any amount of configuration I can do to 'tune' it out.. I might try adding some gas struts or something to keep the gears loaded in one direction. I guess a 'balanced rig' isnt all shes cracked up to be.

    I'm also guessing that as my rig has a fair bit of momentum compared to alot that it would be exagerated on mine compared to some. or i'm just picky

    I've done this for now and its really dampened/removed most of the banging I was describing earlier. not ideal though (it has made the thing so much fun to drive though)

    IMG_0391.JPG
  16. delcarlo

    delcarlo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    439Coins
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Reverb Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,044
    Location:
    USA
    Balance:
    5,828Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,042 / 4 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Hey Andrew, congrats on the build and it looks great!

    I'm curious on your feelings about motion now that you have a 2dof. Not that I would stop now as I have just about everything for my own 2dof, but curious how someone fresh to motion feels about it.

    Again, great looking rig! Gives me a lot more confidence in mine - I got the same motors. Just arrived yesterday.
  18. delcarlo

    delcarlo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    439Coins
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor
    Heya, the motion is great.. after about 50 laps of my local circuit I was wondering if the motion was distracting and not immersive.. so I turned it off and the game felt dead compared.. I had to turn it back on..

    The main forces that so far are really helping the immersive feeling are bumps like ripple strips (hitting a wall is not pleasant, haha) and braking. The tilt is really helpful in knowing how fast the car is braking so I manage to slow enough for corners. that was something that I struggled to be aware of when running a non-motion sim.. I would always enter corners way too hot as there no real concept of speed or how hard I was braking. I'm thinking a VR headset will help that aswell as a 2d screen has no depth to feel speed..

    cornering (sway) feels a bit unnatural as the rig has to pivot a long way to feel any kind of forces here and then becomes distracting as it moves like a pendulum and a little fish tailing down the straight has it flying all over the place if its turned up too high
    I think a g-seat will feel more natural for sway. (in my real race car I think I feel myself pressing into the shoulder rests on the seat more than the centrifugal force itself as im strapped in hard, other than the odd headspin)

    I think one of my gearboxes is faulty as the right one is quite notchy compared to the left one

    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. Zed

    Zed VR Simming w/Reverb Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,044
    Location:
    USA
    Balance:
    5,828Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,042 / 4 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Hey Andrew, thanks for the impressions! I have been wondering about the movement with the pivot point below me. In going to try to get it as close to the bottom of my seat as possible to minimize the pendulum feel then.

    I hope your gearbox is ok. That would suck. But if you hurt some teeth with the pre-tuning super snappy response, I've seen it mentioned you can just use the other side of the big output gear to extend the life.

    Hope it's ok, though. But again, nice looking rig! That tubing looks great for a frame!
    • Like Like x 1