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SCN5 or SCN 6 for 2DOF racing seat (150mm)

Discussion in 'New users start here - FAQ' started by Cracheur, Nov 9, 2009.

  1. Cracheur

    Cracheur New Member

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    Hello,

    first of all, I'd like to say that I'm glad to have have found this site offering so much solutions. Finally I can as well tell my wife that I'm not that much insane regarding my racingsetup... at least I'm not alone-;)

    Now straight to the point:

    I want to build a 2 DOF (to start) racing seat with 150mm SCN actuators. As far as I've read, you should use 150mm to get some decent g-force simulation.

    Now the question is SCN5 or SCN6. I wight is about 90KG and with the seat I believe it will have to move around 120KG max. However I'd feel more comfortable in buying something that would as well work for somebody with 100 or 110KG > 140KG in total.

    As I understood, the SCN5 are twice as fast as the SCN6, however the SCN5 can't carry that much weight and might not behave as wanted when reaching the weight limit. So I'm not sure what would be the better choice. Under weight the SCN6 might be as fast as SCN5 or???
    Obviously price is always an issue, however to be honest, I could afford at the moment both SCN5 or SCN6.

    What would you guys out there recommend?

    Many thanks for your help

    Br
    Claude
  2. bvillersjr

    bvillersjr Active Member

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    The SCN5 has more community backing (motion profiles, design help, etc..) at this point. My motion seat base has been tested to 260lbs (120kg) with SCN5's. It is true that with increased load, the SCN5's become slower. I cant say if they will slow to the point of an SCN6 or not because this is going to depend on your actuator angles and overall design. I believe that in the case of my design, the SCN5 will be faster than ther SCN6, but this is theory. I have not tested this scenario.
  3. Cracheur

    Cracheur New Member

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    Cheers for your answer. I believe that the community support is definitely an important and not a neglectable argument.
    I'll go for SCN5.

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  4. sn4il

    sn4il New Member

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    Has anyone tried butting two SCN5 100mm together?

    something like this i mean: -------||||||-||||||-------
    I'm assuming that two units could be connected in parallel with no problems.
    It should increase the travel but dunno if it would be safe for actuators.
    sn4il
  5. bvillersjr

    bvillersjr Active Member

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    I have not tried this yet. It would increase your travel, but please keep in mind that the load handling capacity may not be what you expect. The push force capacity is different from the pull force capacity on these actuators. This would lead me to believe that at times, one actuator would be pulling the other along.

    I haven't thought it through fully, but at first glance, I'm not sure that I would recommend this. It really depends on how you intend to mount it and what the load would be.

    :cheers:
  6. sn4il

    sn4il New Member

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    This is very important info that makes things different.
    I still think it could be good solution to reduce stress on actuators with heavier drivers. Since travel is greater it could be mounted farther from u-joint where forces needed to move the seat could be weaker?
    I guess I have to think it over and maybe do some math on this one.
    I was thinking to mount them like these:
    [​IMG]


    Again..., Do You think this factor should be considered during seat balancing?

    If scn5 would withstand the forces it should not matter in this configuration sicne all we care is overall lenght of the setup?
    sn4il
  7. bvillersjr

    bvillersjr Active Member

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    I think once you do the math, you will see that this is not the case. The further that you move the occupants body weight away from the balance point (via your more travel), the harder the actuators have to work to return the driver to center.

    This is an easy theory to prove to yourself even without doing the math. Simply place a seat on a pivot point with no actuators attached. Have someone else sit in it and get balanced. Then you can stand behind the seat and move them 2 inches away from the pivot point in any direction noting the amount of effort required to move them. Now try moving them 4 or even 6 inches away from the balancing point. The force required to lift them back up will be significantly increased. You are talking about moving them even more than 6 inches.

    I'm sorry to be be a naysayer, but I would hate to see you ruin an actuator. Additionally, IMHO, more than 150mm of movement is too much if you aren't planning to move the wheel and pedals too. For example, under acceleration, you would practically pull your steering wheel off with 300mm of travel.
  8. sn4il

    sn4il New Member

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    I'm building standard motion seat based on two 150mm SCN5.
    I would love to move the wheel and pedals also, that's why I'm looking for different solutions.
    I got Your point with required pull force in this setup (thnx).

    Do You think two SCN5 could be doubled this way?

    [​IMG]
    I dont know how big of an error between two actuators could be expected (while receiving same data). Three pivots are there only to minimize the risk of failure of an actuator if movment is not exactly same.
    I don't have any experience with SCN5 yet, and would appreciate Your point of view on this setup.
    Thnx
    sn4il
  9. nical

    nical New Member

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    Hi,

    I'm interested by this way to use 2scn5 as one actuator ...
    I've ever think to make that.

    With the pivots this system can work efficiently.

    you can find good pivots here : http://www.igus.com/igubal.asp
    i've buy these models and i will test on my new simulator.
    Its self aligning and maintenance-free, and low cost...

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  10. sn4il

    sn4il New Member

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    I'm thinking of using double setup because of my weight (260lbs, 117kg). I also want to move entire platform with the wheel and pedals. I'm affraid of this setup to be able to hold the axis just with self aligning pivots. Have to do some reaserch. It's not a problemy anyway, it could be easly solved.
    Thnx nical for the link!
    sn4il
  11. bvillersjr

    bvillersjr Active Member

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    I believe that this can be done given the correct pivot mechanism. You can trick X-Sim into sending identical Commands to two actuators at the same time by manipulating your wiring and actuator ID #'s in the SCN5PLugin.
  12. sn4il

    sn4il New Member

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    After taking better look at this setup I think it might be dangerous for actuators. If they extend apart from each other, radial force will be created by connector rod between them.
    sn4il
  13. jff46

    jff46 New Member

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    Hello,
    I'm French sorry for my English
    Is it possible to do it this way for 2 scn5 per axes ?

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    • scn5.JPG
      scn5.JPG
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  14. audiojester

    audiojester New Member

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    I am super excited to see someone use 4 actuators on a 2dof setup! I wanna know how it feels. You would feel a pebble on the tarmac with the power of 4 CSN5's wouldnt you!? I know 2 is enough but is it perfect?
  15. Fahim

    Fahim Member

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    yeah imagine 4 x sn5. two on each side of the seat with some sort of allowance for any actuator not being in sequence at a given time. the power would be immense but it won't improve speed maybe.