Polarized stereo 3D using 2 projectors + cheap foil filters

3D VIEW- Passive 3D by Dual Projection Polarization

Long time ago i start to test with few different types of view. I was going to achieve the best immersion and orientation in game`s environment. I went through wide field of view from two projectors on curved screen with 3840x1080 resolution to 3D on small 21 inch monitor with Nvidia 3D Vision - and i decided that even with all advantages given you by panoramic picture is nothing compare to sense of deepness in games! Even on small screen i felt better immerse than on 200 inch screen with flat (2D) picture.

Since i am big fan of natural size of objects i was going to do something with 3D Projector. Only ones on the market are already 720p - thats not enough. Another discomfort is that you have to use shattered glasses - i will explain this later (why this is bad thing).

Lets start.

To create Big Size of 3D picture i used Dual Projector system with polarized filters and glasses - which is one of the best solutions at the moment. Even IMAX is using polarized technology and they are unbeatable.
This setup creates 3D picture by creating view for left and right eye on one screen when polarized filters on the projectors separating light which you will see by dedicated filters on your glasses. Simple said. Now lets do...

Projector
2x any projector. When i am thinking about any it means it can be DLP one or LCD and with any resolution. On 3d forums you can read about problems with some types of LCD projectors and how to manage with it. I did not have problems at all.
I used 2x Panasonic PT-AE3000 with 1920x1080 resolution on 100 inch screen. Is crucial to use same type of projectors to achieve the best picture before and after transforming it to 3D. Simply - two pictures have to match each other. You are placing them in the same place on the screen.

Filters & Glasses
I will go back to this subject in the future when i will get some more details about any other options. Since i am happy with this what i got for now i will stick with it as the test setup.
I have use same filters for projector and glasses. You can split one pair of glasses and put each lens on the projector`s lens. This way you will achieve differently polarized light from each of them. Another glasses are for you.

Software
You have to get picture converted for left and right eye (one form each projector).
You have two options in shape of two different sources: IZ3D (used by me from times of colored 3D glasses) and DDD TriDef.
Since i have more experience with IZ3D i will keep my project with them. TriDef is similar by the way (also have 3D movie player!).
http://www.iz3d.com/
http://www.ddd.com
You have a trail with those drivers for 30 days. After this time you have to by them (49 $) - sounds fair with all future upgrades and support.
In setup you have to activate Dual Output (Dual Projectors) and Enable Stereo for DirectX in there (DirectX 9 at the moment). And thats it with the software. When you will start game drivers will kick in.

I think you already figure this out - you need GPU with dual DVI or HDMI output. Actually any type of dual output which will activate two projectors in Windows OS.

Screen
To be able to see what came from polarized light you need to use special screen. On the market you can find lots of them (they are not cheap). Since everybody knows that it has to be kind of metallic surface - everybody is trying to make his own by using paint with metal bids or just finding some metallic boards.
For example to my tests i picked up kitchen foil and garage doors (they were hardly painted at the back and metallic surface was still adopting light). Yea i know - there were garage doors in my room!
But the biggest blast in the face i get when i picked up big aluminum sheet from my friend. Aluminum is kind of matt and maximally adopting polarized picture. It is matt but still reflecting light thats why i shaped screen a little bid to get picture being equally bright and not dazzle me.

Re: Peter`s MULTI SIM PROJECT

Rock`N`Roll guys that works so good. That is the best additional to Race Sim. Right now i am scared when i am driving - everything looks soo real. You can see how far is to turn and what is yours distance from cars. You rally feel like there is space on the front of you. Don`t get me like i am a Kid who gets a candy. I have experience with 3D from very beginning, when that was about color glasses. Right now i am just talking about Huge picture with impressive quality. Natural sizes of the world on the front of you and this sharpness and quality !!!

Skipping cost of the projectors the rest is very cheap.
Glasses can be buy in local cinema (same what they used for Avatar and Alice). I bought some from Germany (3.5 £ two of them).
Aluminum sheet size 3000x1500 - 50£.

At the moment i am about to buy proper screen from German company who is doing great quality ones - i`ii let you know what came up.
You can check right here:
German
http://www.awater3d.com
English:
http://www.awater3d.com/en/

Also they have polarized filters which you can consider for yours project.

Re: Peter`s MULTI SIM PROJECT

Amazing! DIY IMAX projection? Can't get any better than that!

The only challenge I see here is figuring out a cheap way to make large screens that give you the best color and resolution. It has to be metallic but dull and white at the same time, and this is exactly why silver oxide is the best material to use.

I bet you can find polarizing lens for cameras that fit your projectors perfectly. You just have to rotate them so the light is properly polarized.

Re: Peter`s MULTI SIM PROJECT

One quick thing for those of you who had bad feeling experience with shattered glasses (Nvidia, eDimensional types) - it is nothing like that with polarized 3D picture. Last night i played 8 hours i did not piuck or lost my consciousness.
This type of projection existed in nature before someone use it to create 3D picture. You just see different types of light - nothing is strobing before your eyes to cheat yours brain. It safe like watching normal TV - of course if we have put TV in place of acceptable damaged to our health.

Re: Peter`s MULTI SIM PROJECT

Here is place for all of us to test - what works better. It is good point to try with any products.

Frakk - I hope you will came up with some conclusions. I am looking forward.

Screen from Monika Awater site is quite big and cheap. Defiantly is quality one for polarized 3D.


I am encouraging you all to give it a try with this alu sheet. I used it to compare quality on Avatar, L4D2, COD: MW2 games and Live for Speed. Everything compare to Nvidia`s 3D. I am really happy about quality but you have to give some advantages in term of quality to Panasonic Projectors. I don`t know how it will looks with different PJ.

Re: Peter`s MULTI SIM PROJECT

What do you mean by conclusions? For a cheap DIY 3D screen?

Aluminum sheet is probably the most practical solution. You just buy the sheet and thats it. The quality can vary greatly from different types of aluminium. The best would be a very very smooth polished sheet that oxidizes on the surface. The oxide will give it a matte greyish white color, while being smooth will give a good picture.

The best would be of course to make your own silver coated screen. This could be done by mixing pure silver dust (or similar) into a matte clear coat, then spraying it on a surface. An other, non-practical way is chemically depositing silver, but not on 100 screens. When I was working for Eurocircuits, we've done a fair amount of silver plating on PCB's. It would be possible to put together more panels, but the price is just not worth it.

Over all, I don't know if it is worth making your own. How much is cheap for an Awater 3D screen?

Re: Peter`s MULTI SIM PROJECT

Frakk - you have plenty ideas in case of screen and i think about filters as well. Please use it - i really need some support from someone like you to make a progress.

2.4m x 1.8m SilverFabric silver screen from awater 3D cost about 150$ - which is actually good price.

Re: Peter`s MULTI SIM PROJECT

For $150? Are you kidding? You hardly get a regular screen for that much..
For that price I wouldn't even think about making my own. You probably get warranty and other services with it too!

You can always make your own frame for it, or even bend it. :

Re: Peter`s MULTI SIM PROJECT

I found this price on other forum - will see how accurate it is.
I`ve send them email before weekend with question about price and order conditions.

I agree - with this price it is pointless to look for any alternatives.

Re: Peter`s MULTI SIM PROJECT

Well that is the most awesome news regarding simulation immersion improvement I've heard for very long time! :freu:

Using the filters of some generic polarisation glasses (~1Euro at the cinema) in front of the projectors. Brilliant :yippiee:
(Somehow I thought you need some incredible expensive special glassware filters to place in front of the projectors.)

Thanks alot for your tutorial Peter :

Btw, sorry, but this issue is that important, that I need to open a proprietary thread for it. I will split your thread starting from your update later. This new needs to get out :clap:

Regards

egoexpress - I really share yours enthusiasm and thank you for support.

This case is known by some group of people for a long time. I just post it because i went myself through all obstacles and i did that looks like it is really simple to make yourself!

Besides it is great for our community since we looking for the best experience coming from simulation. We are extending all the time our motion experience and already we got big step it case of the view!

There you got price list from Monika Awater store:

This 3D screen surface is made for professional passive 3D, active 3D and high brightness 2D displays.
The material is rollable, robust and washable.
The named prices include all necessary services like cut and handling.
Customized formats are available on request.

Technical details:
Peak polarization ratio 80:1
Peak Gain 2.4
Half gain angle 17°
Viewing angle 34°
Weight 150 gr/sqm

Formats Screen (material only)
4:3 2.000 x 1.500 mm Screen material only 328,00 €
4:3 2.600 x 1.900 mm Screen material only 540,00 €
4:3 2.400 x 1.800 mm Screen material only 473,00 €
4:3 3.200 x 2.400 mm Screen material only 840,00 €
16:9 4.270 x 2.400 mm Screen material only 1122,00 €
16:9 3.380 x 1.900 mm Screen material only 703,00 €
professional transport tube for shipment 25,00 €

Formats Complete Screen
4:3 2.000 x 1.500 mm including 50mm black border,eyelets and straps 516,00 €
4:3 2.600 x 1.900 mm including 50mm black border,eyelets and straps 769,00 €
4:3 2.400 x 1.800 mm including 50mm black border,eyelets and straps 691,00 €
4:3 3.200 x 2.400 mm including 50mm black border,eyelets and straps 1132,00 €
16:9 4.270 x 2.400 mm including 50mm black border,eyelets and straps 1465,00 €
16:9 3.380 x 1.900 mm including 50mm black border,eyelets and straps 973,00 €
professional transport tube for shipment 35,00 €



Professional Screen system

StandardFormats Frame Size Screen Size incl.50 mm black border, eyelets and straps Price(in Euro)
4:3 1.600 x 1.250 1.400 x 1.050 € 998
4:3 2.300 x 1.800 2.100 x 1.600 € 1.323
4:3 2.600 x 2.000 2.400 x 1.800 € 1.338
4:3 2.800 x 2.100 2.600 x 1.900 € 1.668
4:3 3.200 x 2.450 3.000 x 2.250 € 2.078
4:3 3.400 x 2.600 3.200 x 2.400 € 2.244
16:9 2.600 x 1.550 2.400 x 1.350 € 1.592
16:9 3.570 x 2.100 3.370 x 1.900 € 2.482
16:9 4.460 x 2.600 4.260 x 2.400 € 2.924

So after all they are not that cheap.

The price is a bit over 100 euros for a square meter. IMO this is still a good price for a professional 3D screen.
If you consider a custom cut 2m x 1m screen material, it would cost roughly 300 euros.

I wonder if it would be possible to simply DIY a silverscreen with a paintjob, by spraying silver paint onto a sheet...

It is very possible. Thats how commercial screens are made essentially.

The question is: Where do you get silver paint from?

edit: I found powder:
http://www.saltlakemetals.com/Silver_Powder.htm

$220 for 100g... A little expensive for experiments.

Does it need to be silver anyway?
Perhaps some silver colored paint does the job as well.
As Peter sucessfully displayed 3D on an aluminium sheet as far as I understood.

Silver colored paint is not going to work.

What makes the screen work with polarized light is the fact that the light gets reflected polarized in the same direction as the source. Regular screens will just scatter the light, the glasses on the head won't differentiate between the two images which defeats the whole point. This is why metallic surfaces are needed, they don't depolarize the light that hits them.

edit: I guess if the paint is a metallic paint which keeps polarization, it will work. It would be very interesting to see the effects of different types of spray paint, but that is a lot of paint to try out.

Paint has to be with metal bids - that works for some people.

Check on this paint:
https://www.paintonscreen.com/3dprojectionscreen.html

also - mixing paints sometimes went wrong because white paint burned out to dark after few weeks.

There is some kind of paint with aluminum or metal bids. It is used to paint some of the car parts like exhaust, manifold or engine. It is thermal resistant and probably in few colors. I`ll check it later.

BINGO ! Like for me it is so great that i`am not looking for better one (at the moment). I just pick up different sheet of aluminum. On the front it is painted but the back is clear alu. Compare to first one which i use - this one is less reflective and surface is smoother. Basically it is better quality one. Actually quality is so good that i can compare that to standard flat screen which i was using before (painted and polished white wall).

Sheet is very fine (about 0.8 mm). I was only able to buy 1200mm high (thats why at the end it is 2200x1200). I paid 5£ for that!

This aluminum still reflecting some strap of light from projectors thats why i had to bend the screen a little bid. It doesn`t change picture at all - in 3D still looks like it should be (2D picture usually is deformed). I still have some light on the side of screen (you can see that on picture) but it doesn`t irritate me. In fact i will get rid of it when i will make proper mounting for screen with permanent shape.

On the pictures you can see how screen looks compare to my old wall and also how 2D (1920x1080) picture looks like on the screen compare to white wall.

That is awesome! If I had the money for a pair of projectors it would be already in the living room!

Excellent work!